Simple Question

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Ruzai, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    I'm looking to buy an AR-15 lower assembly and I know next to diddly-squat about the AR market when it comes to buying. So far I've gathered its cheaper to buy an assembly than build one from parts, given the tool cost and what-not (at the moemnt at least).

    I have a chance to get a reciever group (stock, 1 magazine, and complete assembly) for $375. Its got magpul goodies on it, so the MOE stock I like and is SUPPOSEDLY milled.

    Is this a good deal?

    And just a curious side note, do forged recievers have the possibility of having air-pockets in them like I've been hearing from "the rumor factory" aka other gun-store patrons and interwebz?
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    any chunk of metal whether its source is mim, forge molded, billet, whatever can have "airpockets". thats why high stress parts like bolts and barrels on higher quality makers are magnetic particle inspected. the purpose of the tests is to look for cracks and voids.

    with ar recievers i think its a non issue since unless your making the reciever out of steel there is no real way to tell with aluminum. aluminum tends to be pretty uniform and doesnt tend to bubble when molded into billets for milling or molded straight into the shape needed.

    the way aluminum molds i dont see any real advantage of billet vs molded receivers other than billet-milled costs a lot more. whats far more important and makes forged vs milled kinda irrelevant is what grade is the aluminum made of and what specs is the given reciever made to. the process of getting there is kinda irrelevant in regards to aluminum.

    look more at the general quality of the company's products the material the product is made of and what specification the product is being made to.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012

  3. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Depends what components are in the receiver. For $375 they should be top notch but I've got a feeling that in this case they're not. I'd put together the right parts myself.

    Who's selling this thing anyway? Sounds like they're using scare tactics.
     
  4. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Forged receivers are pounded to shape, so air pockets are usually not an issue. Cast receivers are where most folks worry about air pockets.

    It would help to know the pedigree of the other parts in the lower receiver to justify that price. A complete lower can be had for less than $375.
     
  5. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    More details on the $375 complete lower please..
     
  6. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    Its a JB Tactical complete lower assembly. They're made near where I live currently but they dont really have a website up and running yet since they seem to be fairly new company based out of Wheat Ridge, CO. They're company symbol looks somewhat like a Ace Spade.

    The person who told me it was milled is the store owner thats selling it. I didnt let on that I didnt know diddly about AR receivers, I just asked basic questions like where it was from and how it was made and if it was mil-spec. It is mil-spec from what I was told. The store itself specializes in selling black rifles so I doubt they'd lie about it being mil-spec.

    It has a life-time warranty and is made to accept full-auto parts, hence the 3 position diagrams on the side of the receiver. Obviously I cant get any since I'm not an LEO or anything like that.
     
  7. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    To new to be charging that much IMO.
     
  8. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    If i were you, i can use that $375 to buy or build a complete lower with top notch brands.
     
  9. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I'll ditto that. For that price they'd better tell you what went into the lower. And what stock does it come with? Also, if you really like the stripped lower and they'll sell it separate you can buy the rest of the parts for $180 or less depending on where you buy. Top notch parts, btw.
     
  10. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    The MOE Carbine stock.

    The receiver is marked "Multi" caliber like I like them to be but thats hardly worth the extra $100. My problem is that pre-assembled lowers that I like are all out of stock for what looks to be a long time. I was thinking Double Star but they're backordered.
     
  11. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    MOE stock cost only $50. Almost all lowers are marked Multi. Which means it can accept 556 and 223. You should do some AR research or even read the famous Agent Tikki AR primer
     
  12. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Well it's not that hard to build up a lower. With true milspec parts you can come in around $300 or less even with a MOE and H buffer.
     
  13. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    okdonk- I am doing AR research, just wanting input from actual AR owners about some of this stuff. I want to make the right decision on a lower and go from there. I'd much rather it be pre-assembled that way I can replace parts with better ones at my own pace.

    The Double Star lower is going for $200 pre-assembled without a stock. I could easily find a stock I suppose.
    What are the opiniones on Double Star receivers/parts?
     
  14. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I don't understand that first statement, why buy assembled then replace parts when you can get it right in the first place.

    Check DS specs. Commercial diameter receiver extension? Crap LPK? You don't want these things. You want mil spec diameter, quality LPK and H buffer.

    If you really want it built and built right get a BCM blem lower for about $285 then add a stock. You won't have to upgrade the internals or RE.
     
  15. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    For all intents and purposes forged is better han milled. Its cheaper and pound for pound stronger. Milled can be made stronger, but then it'd be heavier, and overbuilt. Honestly tho it desnt really matter all that much. The lower reciever doesn't take too much stress nor does it need to be all that strong. There are a few companies making PLASTIC lowers with some success.
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    $375 seems a bit pricey to me, even in this inflated market.

    A lower receiver is a lower receiver is a lower receiver. It is basically a device to hold the more important moving parts in their precise location. There are varying quality levels of craftsmanship, and some Al being used is of better composition than others, but at the end of the day the lower receiver really is just a containment device. You could build one out of plywood and it would do the same thing.

    As long as you aren't purchasing a lower from "Bubba's Bar-B-Que pit and Ar Emporium", you will probably be okay. ;)

    Find one with a roll mark you like and go from there.

    JD
     
  17. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Check out this thread:

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/pictures-lower-receivers-38440/

    Take a look at this thread, and see if there are any rollmarks that appeal to you.

    If you like one in particular see if its readily available and buy it.

    Then goto this site and buy a lower build kit.

    http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...d-kit-sale/psa-str-lower-build-kit-black.html
    http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...kit-sale/psa-acs-l-lower-build-kit-black.html
    http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...tm_campaign=Constant+Contact&utm_medium=email
    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/build-kits.html

    The STR and ACL-S builds are really good buys. I've personally gone throught about 8 or 9 PSA lower parts kits with no issues so far. (edit on one order with about 3 lpks, a couple springs and detents were missing but a quick call and they sent it to me for free)

    Personally I think that JB Tactical might have a pretty unique lower. I've only seen the Ace of Spades used in a homebrew build. See if you can get it stripped and add all the goodies yourself. It will be cheaper if you use the same parts, it can even be cheaper if you use better parts (within reason).

    I've done a few lowers and they usually take me about 30-45 mins to due with a little help from my wife (holding it while I hammer in a couple roll pins) and basically taking my time. The first time I did it with the help of my friend and I think it took only about 1 hour. Its really not all that difficult and there are alot of resources (including a sticky at the top of the forum by our esteemed colleague BenLuby) that will walk you though it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
  18. EW1066

    EW1066 Member Supporter

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    That is not quite true. The ability to accept 556/223 is determined by the upper not the lower. More correctly the barrel chamber determines that. Not the marking on the lower. The lower doesn't know or care what kind of bullet you shoot. As long as the magazine fits and the hammer can strike the firing pin the lower will work.

    The "MULTI CAL." marking means that you can use any caliber upper you want from 22lr to 50 Bohika. As long as the you can put the upper on it and the fc group works you have no restrictions. If it is marked 556/223, however, TECHNICALLY you are restricted to those calibers. By that, I mean that it's not a physical limitation but administrative. The 556/223 lower has all the same capabilities of the MULTI lower. But since the registration is limited to 556/223, so are you...TECHNICALLY. Will using any other caliber get you in trouble? Probably not. But, should you ever find yourself under the scrutiny of the BATF, it sure could.

    So make sure you get a lower marked "MULTI" and you'll never have to worry about it.

    EDUB
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
  19. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    Oops sorry for the wrong info, my bad. thx for correcting.
     
  20. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Ruzai,

    First of all from what you said I would be finding another gun store to do business with. Due to tha amount of BS and lack on knowledge. The best lower and upper receivers out there are Forged. Forged receivers do not have air bubbles in them. Cast receivers do!
    When buying a lower or upper receiver you want one made of 7075 T-6 Aluminum. Not those in the 60?? Series aluminum. Machined receivers made of the same quality aluminum are OK but somewhat more expensive with no real benefit unless you just want one and want to spend the money. But as stated they have no real advantage at all. Also as some have mentioned you want to get them from a reputable sources like those below.
    Stag
    Rock River
    Spikes
    CMMG
    Colt
    LMT
    Eagle (Armalite)
    Daniel Defense
    Double Star is also good as you mentioned.
    and other reputable manufacturers that do Mil-Spec quality work.
    Some other manufacturers that are well known are far from producing Mil-Spec quality and will remain unmentioned!

    03