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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sig is in competition for the Military's new Squad Weapon System. Pictured is the Standard Model and the Belt Fed Squad Rifle. To possibly replace the M-204?
Using the new Sig 6.8 X 51 Round. They sent 820,000 rounds for the Military Tests.
It is a unique round with a Stainless-Steel Base and Brass Sides Walls.
Chamber Pressure of 80,000 psi and the 130 gr. Bullet produces 3,000 fps. The Stainless-Steel Base allows the increase in pressure to also produce the velocity. It was reported that the trajectory was flatter than the 6.5 Creedmoor at 1000 yards.
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Stainless Steel Base & Brass Case.

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Ooooo... that looks expensive. I guess since we're out of Afghanistan, they are going to move forward with this BS.
I've yet to see any real forecast for a combat enemy that will field body armor en masse. And THAT is assuming we would engage in large scale land based troop combat to begin with.
Not to poo poo the tech, its all pretty neat. Just no need for all the moolah we are spending on this ngsw crap.
Unless... the armor we are trying to defeat is extra terrestrial, in which case this may be absolutely necessary. That would probably be the only feasible reason i could see for the new ammo.
 

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Ooooo... that looks expensive. I guess since we're out of Afghanistan, they are going to move forward with this BS.
I've yet to see any real forecast for a combat enemy that will field body armor en masse. And THAT is assuming we would engage in large scale land based troop combat to begin with.
Not to poo poo the tech, its all pretty neat. Just no need for all the moolah we are spending on this ngsw crap.
Unless... the armor we are trying to defeat is extra terrestrial, in which case this may be absolutely necessary. That would probably be the only feasible reason i could see for the new ammo.
100% this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Cliff,
My thought was also I would hate to be using the weapon with 80,000 psi when it had a catastrophic event! "Blow Up!"
Here is a picture of what 60,000 can do with a Barrel obstruction! BOOOM!
Caused by a Cleaning Patch! 😕
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Sig is in competition for the Military's new Squad Weapon System. Pictured is the Standard Model and the Belt Fed Squad Rifle. To possibly replace the M-204?
Using the new Sig 6.8 X 51 Round. They sent 820,000 rounds for the Military Tests.
It is a unique round with a Stainless-Steel Base and Brass Sides Walls.
Chamber Pressure of 80,000 psi and the 130 gr. Bullet produces 3,000 fps. The Stainless-Steel Base allows the increase in pressure to also produce the velocity. It was reported that the trajectory was flatter than the 6.5 Creedmoor at 1000 yards.
View attachment 250690
View attachment 250693

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View attachment 250695
Stainless Steel Base & Brass Case.

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Interesting technology. Why not just use cluster bombs, get all of them, fly home and load up again? Civilians would take a hit but after 20 years in 'younameit--stan, and the same amount of time in VN, they took hits anyway.

I've been in a cluster bomb factory and there is a lot of engineering in them. They work very well in spite of the dud rate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
They are going to make a civilian version of the standard Rifle.
Sig Model: 277 Fury and Sig 6.8 X 51.
I can only imagine the cost of it! :rolleyes:

I think the size of the Sig 6.8 X 51 is the same Case dimension as the 308 except the new Sig designed case and being 6.8. I suppose that is where the number 51 comes from.
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SIG developed the 277 Fury back in 2019. It is the civilian version of the military 6.8x51. It was initially developed to get 3,000 FPS with a 135 grain bullet from a 16" barrel. It is SAAMI certified.

277 comes in 2 versions, "Standard" and "Overdriven." Standard uses a traditional brass case and pressures and the overdriven version uses the 3-piece case and 80,000 PSI.

I don't see ammo for sale anywhere, even SIG's site doesn't list it. However, the Roberson Brass company is making all brass cases for the standard loading...they're "only" $5.38 per each!

I don't see the draw for the "standard" loading at all, I mean, what does it compare to? The super high pressure version just beats out the 6.5 CM, so the standard is going to be somewhat less and right in the mix with so many other cartridges.

If plain old brass cases are $5.38 each, I can imagine what the 3-pierce ones will cost. Those take a lot more labor/manufacturing steps to make.

I don't blame SIG for this atrocity, they're just responding to the government's requirements. I don't see the point of the 3,000 FPS from a 16" barrel requirement. If they seek performance at longer range, there are already cartridges that will do it.
 

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They are going to make a civilian version of the standard Rifle.
Sig Model: 277 Fury and Sig 6.8 X 51.
I can only imagine the cost of it! :rolleyes:

I think the size of the Sig 6.8 X 51 is the same Case dimension as the 308 except the new Sig designed case and being 6.8. I suppose that is where the number 51 comes from.
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It's close, but not exact. Overall, the 277 is the same length, same body and head diameter, but the body is a touch longer before the shoulder starts, the shoulder angle is also steeper.

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Taking a direct hit from a 50BMG is going to kill ya. Body armor will just hide the mush, if it works.
While that may remain true (or not. I don’t know if the right tech will come along that can defeat the .50 or not.). But the fact that they are fielding armor that already can stop the existing squad gun rounds in NATO inventory was what my reply was really about. 7.62x51 may be in sight of it’s need for replacement in this role.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Doc

Old Memories!
Yes, it broke my Heart when they took my beloved M-14 in 7.62 X 51 from me and issued us Matty Matels!
There later was a reprieve when they issued me 2 Match M-14s for the Rifle Team. Love those Weapons! (y)
Today I have Springfield M1-As. One scoped and one with NM Irons. I used them for teaching the States Certified M1-A / M-14 Rifle Schools. Since a lot of agencies have De-Milled DRMO M-14 Rifles and some rural County Departments have them or an M1-A in the trunks of their cars.

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Doc

Old Memories!
Yes, it broke my Heart when they took my beloved M-14 in 7.62 X 51 from me and issued us Matty Matels!
There later was a reprieve when they issued me 2 Match M-14s for the Rifle Team. Love those Weapons! (y)
Today I have Springfield M1-As. One scoped and one with NM Irons. I used them for teaching the States Certified M1-A / M-14 Rifle Schools. Since a lot of agencies have De-Milled DRMO M-14 Rifles and some rural County Departments have them or an M1-A in the trunks of their cars.

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Hey Sniper,

Can I have your M1-A? I really want one. The one with iron sights will do. Just a question I had for ya.... 😁

Sincerely Yours,

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While that may remain true (or not. I don’t know if the right tech will come along that can defeat the .50 or not.). But the fact that they are fielding armor that already can stop the existing squad gun rounds in NATO inventory was what my reply was really about. 7.62x51 may be in sight of it’s need for replacement in this role.
Thanks for clarifying Doc. Pretty amazing armor. I still don't want to take a hit with it on but better than what we have....I guess. They don't tell us everything.
 

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Doc

Old Memories!
Yes, it broke my Heart when they took my beloved M-14 in 7.62 X 51 from me and issued us Matty Matels!
There later was a reprieve when they issued me 2 Match M-14s for the Rifle Team. Love those Weapons! (y)
Today I have Springfield M1-As. One scoped and one with NM Irons. I used them for teaching the States Certified M1-A / M-14 Rifle Schools. Since a lot of agencies have De-Milled DRMO M-14 Rifles and some rural County Departments have them or an M1-A in the trunks of their cars.

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I feel ya.
I enjoyed my match days. I did actually find the AR platform a bit easier to get higher scores with, and once accurizing was done it seemed to stay, where the M1A seemed to require more “retuning”.

But the armor Vs projectile development race is an old one.
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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Southernguns,

The reason I have two of them, one with a Scope and one with only Irons. Is in the State Academy Schools we shoot both Irons and Scopes. To instruct the students on proper adjustment of both. And I got tired of taking my scope off the one rifle to use the irons in the school. Long story short, I have all the Dope on my Scoped Rifle for 1000 yards. And re-zeroing to assure it is the same was a pain in the Arsssss! So I contacted my contact at Springfield, and she gave me a pro staff deal on the M1-A "Loaded Model" with the Iron Sights. The Scoped rifle is a National Match. So now no more nightmare of taking the Scope off and putting in back on the NM Rifle. About the only difference between the National Match Rifle and the Loaded Rifle is the Loaded is not glass bedded and costs a little less but shoots excellently! Everything else is like the NM Rifle.

But just a thought, if anyone is planning on purchasing a Springfield M1-A IMO do not buy a Super Match. The stock is much fatter than the standard rifles. So go with the Standard the National Match or Loaded Models. IMO the feel of the Super Match Stock "sucks"! It is so fat and wide. I had one years ago and I did not like it at all, so it found a new home. Of course, being in the military I was use to the feel of the original standard Stock Design.;)

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Doc,

You are right with the improvements on all of the AR-15s today, and also, especially with the Match Grade and Varmint rifles.
A lot of the match shooters at Camp Perry and other competition events went with the AR Rifles and National Match Rifes. And also, for the reasons you mentioned!
Because for less recoil and especially when you get older and joint and other pains set in. Much less recoil and punishment on the shoulder when shooting a lot of rounds, like at Camp Perry.
I have a Rock River Arms National Match AR. Looks like your Rifle. Great weapon it is! (y)

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Doc,

You are right with the improvements on all of the AR-15s today, and also, especially with the Match Grade and Varmint rifles.
A lot of the match shooters at Camp Perry and other competition events went with the AR Rifles and National Match Rifes. And also, for the reasons you mentioned!
Because for less recoil and especially when you get older and joint and other pains set in. Much less recoil and punishment on the shoulder when shooting a lot of rounds, like at Camp Perry.
I have a Rock River Arms National Match AR. Looks like your Rifle. Great weapon it is! (y)

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Agree about the lower recoil, but also hand placement just seems to return more naturally for me with the AR. I’ve thought about selling my M1A to fund an AR 10 platform build.

Agree with your points on the Super Match Stock On the M1A. I ended up getting a surplus fiberglass stock, and bedding it, because it just felt more comfortable that the fat stock that came on my NM. Getting and maintaining the forend tension was also easier. My original Match stock is a Walnut one. Shooting in the PNW humidity variations played havoc with the for-end to gas block tension.
 
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