SIG 516 after 1030 rds of no cleaning

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by bluez, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Was doing an experiment with this piston gun.

    I know some Carbine schools have famously gone much further w/o cleaning but this is as far I wanted to take it.

    Also it's not just "how far can I take it and it still work" but also "It being a Piston, I am curious how dirty or not dirty it will be after all those rounds".

    Cleaned it today at approx 1030 rounds.
    There was not a single malfunction during those 1030 rounds.

    At that it didnt look clean but it wasnt filthy either:

    - Lot of oil from my original heavy oiling (for storage) still left over too.
    - Barrel was quite dirty as expected
    - Used my chamber stars for the first time. Not sure how to do it so I improvised ( check last pic)

    Nowhere was there caked-on Carbon to work on. All the dirt you see even in pics 3 and 4 was spray and wipe, and mos tof it seemed to be a mix of lube and some carbon or dirt but nothing caked on by heat.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    It is probly just my ocd but to me that chamber is filthy.... where can I get those stars they look like they would work good
     

  3. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    There was a lot of oil left over from running it too wet and it had gotten dirty.
    I got the chamber stars from of my LGS.
     
  4. fordracing

    fordracing Member

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    Took my 516 to the range for the first time on fri. The range officer at Wicens, Tony, was the best. He helped me sight it in with my new scope. Had a blast. Put about 400 rds down range.

    But I had some issues. Lots of failure to feed. Bolt didn't lock back on the last round a couple times.
    Possible reasons:
    1- before I ever shot this rifle, I cleaned it and double treated it with Frog lube. That was months ago. I like this stuff but maybe I should have used some of the liquid stuff on it right before I went. It seemed to be pretty dry.. After the malfunctions the range officer sprayed the bolt with some oil and that seemed to help.
    2- magazines are loaded and stored at all times.
    3- gas valve setting was at normal setting. Shot 55 grain Remington and pmc

    Any thoughts?

    Took it home and cleaned it and found that it was cleaner than my direct impingement rifle. But I did find a lot of carbon on the piston. The lower was spotless.
    The chamber had some fouling but nothing like DI.
     
  5. sandog

    sandog Member

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    Keep the BCG damp with lube on a DI carbine and the carbon wipes off fairly easy. The piston guns get carbon, just in a different place, and the carbon seems much more baked on. I've noticed this also with the FN Fal, Mini and other piston arms. I saw this test the other day, where 4 identical Bushmaster carbines were shot 10,000 rounds each with minimal cleaning, to test reliabilty, accuracy and wear of a brass cased round, the Federal American Eagle, against 3 Russian steel cased loads. Interesting how the Federal had not a single malfunction, and caused very little bore wear compared to the bi-metal jacket Russian ammo, which wore the rifling down to where bullets were key-holing.
    http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  6. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Which PMC was it?
    The 223 Bronze or the 5.56 XTac?

    I have not shot the 223 Bronze thru my rifle yet, but on other rifles I noticed that the 5.56 mm PMC XATC defiently had a significantly louder report and more flame than the 223 Bronze.

    The 223 PMC is quite a bit softer loaded than 5.56 that would explain your short cycling, being that the rifle is designed for 5.56.

    turning the gas selector to "adverse" would adjust for softer ammo.

    I dont know what my have cause failure to feed though.

    My 516 is the Gen 1 BTW

    EDIT: just saw that your bolt didnt lock back on last round not during the rest of firing order. So you likely were not shortcycling but experiencing a magazine issue .
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  7. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Sandog;

    they get get the carbon elsewhere but it does not affect function in the same way.
    I saw that test also BUT it involved a lot of magdumps and was definetly extra hard on barrels.

    Also the SIG 516 has a CHF barrel unlike those Bushmasters, so the main reason I dont use the cheaper russian ammo is that its not allowed on my range with the piston making their dirty nature less of an issue, the CHF barrrel, and rifles actually being cheaper over their life than the ammo to shoot them I wouldn't mind using he russian ammo. :)
     
  8. sandog

    sandog Member

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    I have never had a function problem with DI carbines in the 38 years I've been shooting them, but I try to clean mine every couple of hundred rounds and keep them lubed.
    I have been getting some of the PMC X-Tac 62 gr. lately for range use so I don't have to use up my SS109 ammo. It is as accurate as my other 62 gr. loads,1 1/2" groups at 100, chronoghraphs @ 2850 fps. out of my 16" barrel, so loaded a bit lighter than 62gr. NATO loads, which get a bit over 3000 fps. It responds to a magnet, so has the steel penetrator core.
     
  9. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Sandog I agree. Nothing wrong with DI. I am just going another route mostly for the fun of being different :)
    When pisotn becomes the new standard you might find me owing all DI guns again just to be a contrarian.

    Incidentally the PMC Xtac 62 gr is SS109 Ammo.
     
  10. fordracing

    fordracing Member

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    223 bronze. Got a safe full of it
     
  11. sandog

    sandog Member

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    The PMC X-Tac is nice ammo, laquered and crimped primers, annealed brass and crimped bullet. I will be buying buy more of it. If it was true SS109 it would be loaded to NATO pressures and velocity. My SS109 is British Radway Green 1991, most accurate 62 gr. I've shot, no green paint on the tip but has the penetrator core,it gets full velocity @ just over 3000 fps. So I am saving it and using the PMC for now.
     
  12. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    Its a little more demanding to make SS109/M855 Ammo accurate despite the perceived advantage of 62 grain when paired with 1/7 barrels (dont get me started on this)

    Adding penetrator to a bullet creates more opportunties for error in the making of the round.
    That's why , all things being equal in price/quality, a 55gr should be more accurate with 1/9 barrel than a 62gr with a 1/7 barrel though in the real world differences are often too slight to measure and amount to "noise".
     
  13. ccase39

    ccase39 New Member

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    My gf dad has a sig and it looks nothing like that. It doesn't have a charging handle or anything. You pull the action open from the side. What is the difference?
     
  14. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    He has a Sig556.
    it is very c;lose to the Swiss Army rifle though not identical.
    I've owned both I very much prefer the 516 over the 556
     
  15. pat701

    pat701 New Member

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    I did the same thing with a Sig 556. 1000rds no malfunctions of any type. Guess the Sig's are keepers:D
     
  16. fordracing

    fordracing Member

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    So I took my 516 to the range today, and was there about 10 minutes. I didn't get through one mag and the thing just stopped feeding altogether. Wouldn't feed with the charging handle. Wouldn't feed with the bolt release. Every round got hung up trying to feed.Borrowed some lube from the range officer and it still wouldn't work.
    I called Sig when I got home and they're going to to look at it. I would grade today's customer service experience an A
    Nothing but problems from this rifle since I got it. I'm having thoughts of trading it in when I get it back.
    The service rep asked how many rounds I had through it, because of the " break in period".
    He also asked if I had cleaned the rifle. But they advertise it can go thousands of round without cleaning. I guess I got a bad one. It happens. I'm just venting. It wasn't a cheap gun
     
  17. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    Did you try to top off the mag and shoot again?
     
  18. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    I am so sorry to hear that.
    I had nothing but pleasure out of mine.
    Bad feeding is difficult to explain.

    Sometimes a new gun wont fully cycle and feed the next round , especially with softer ammo like PMC bronze (not Xtac) or Tula etc.
    But it does not sound like that is your problem:(

    Failure to feed in an AR15 is often a magazine issue. Did you try different mags?
     
  19. fordracing

    fordracing Member

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    Yeah. I go to the range with about six mags already loaded. Time saving thing. I tried them all.
     
  20. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    If it cycles the first few round and then stops, I'd open up and clean that mag first. That done, it may be time for a new mag spring or a new mag. You didn't say if they are milsurps or what. Rule the mag issue out before sending the rifle away.