Shot some telephone books, results not what I expected.

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by iakobos, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. iakobos

    iakobos New Member

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    I shot some personal defense ammo today. They all gave good penetration. What they didn't do was expand.
    In order they are:
    1. Regular 9mm slug which I didn't expect to expand. Fired from Kel-Tec PF9 into phone book. Penetrated about 9"
    2. 9mm 124gr PMC Eldorado Star Fire. Fired from PF-9 into phone book from the bottom end. The bullet was fired horizontally into the pages. Penetrated about 9" (Also fired one directly at front of different book with 4" penetration and no expansion)
    3. 357 150gr PMC Eldorado Star Fire. Fired from revolver into the bottom end of different phone book from one used with 9mm. Penetrated about 11"
    4. 357 150 gr PMC Eldorado Star Fire. Fired straight down through 2" wood into 4" of earth.
    5. 38 Special Federal 110 gr Hydra Shock fired from same 357 into bottom of phone book. Penetrated about 11" Since the pages were already ripped from the 357 that allowed easier travel and probably explains all the paper in the tip.

    I'm guessing this would happen with most any personal defense rounds since this is paper and not gelatin or flesh and bone. But before performing my experiment I expected the self defense loads to expand even in paper. Apparently, the paper keeps the bullet too compressed to allow expansion. In case anyone is not familiar with what the Star Fire does in gelatin when fired from a PF9, it does expand. GoldenLoki.com
     

    Attached Files:

  2. colmustard

    colmustard New Member

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    very interesting, i never tried personnel defense founds in a phone book before, thanks for the pic and info!:)
     

  3. csaw44

    csaw44 New Member

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    Were the phone books wet or dry when you did the test. :confused:
     
  4. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    Those bullets functioned precisely as expected when striking a dry laminated surface. If you shoot into water or a water-based product, such as ballistic gel, jugs of water or even soaking wet phonebooks... they will expand.

    The hollow-point edge acts as a hole punch as you can see by the paper wads at the tip. The perimeter of the paper holes keeps the bullet intact as they penetrated the phonebook.


    Are you an AGGIE?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  5. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Try it again but soak the phonebooks in water over night first. Your results will be much different.
     
  6. iakobos

    iakobos New Member

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    They were dry, I didn't think about shooting them wet. Judging from spittinfire's response that's what I should have done.

    Indeed I am. James Taylor '93. How about yourself?

    I'll hunt down some more phone books. And give it another shot. :D
     
  7. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    Long line of Aggies in my family but I'm an old UT.
     
  8. boatme98

    boatme98 New Member

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    Tie 3 strings around the books, then soak in 5 gal. buckets overnight.
    Leave string on when shooting.:D
     
  9. N.D.

    N.D. New Member

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    In 88 I fired a 110 grn .357 MAG JHP from a 6" 586 that traveled through 2-3 phone books and stopped at the back of the last one probably because it was supported by a wood board which was supported by a cinder block wall but it did expand and even partially fragmented pretty well.

    Shorter BRL's will give less expansion but better penetration and if the round gets clogged up W/ material little to no expansion.

    N.D
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  10. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Hollow points work on hyrdaulic pressure. The fluid entering the point is normally water based. Water cannot be compressed. When additional fluid tries to enter the sides of the cavity give way allowing expansion.

    The Hydra-shok bullet uses a tapered post to direct the forces outward and give reliable expansion.
     
  11. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I shot some wet phonebooks a couple of days ago.

    I shot two of each type of round.

    380 lead round nose 100 grain. Surprise! This was the deepest pentrating round I tested. One was 7 1/8 inches the other 7 1/2 inches. No expansion. I could have loaded and shot them again. I might.

    380 JHP 90 grain. Better than I though it would be. 6 1/2 inches. Expanded to .529 at the widest point. Looked like a nice little flower pattern.

    These were both hand loads. Loaded to the max pressure according to Hodgden. Shot out of a Bersa Thunder with a 3.2 inch Barrel.

    38 Special JHP 125 Grain. Hornady Factory Ammo one was 6 inches the other 6 1/4 inches. Expanded beautifully. .424 at the widest point. I shot these out of a Taurus M85 with a 2" Barrel. Funny, the 380 JHP did more damage to the phonebooks. Went deeper and left more disruption.

    45 ACP JHP 185 grain. 7 inches. Massive expansion. .577 at largest point.
    45 ACP JHP 230 grain. 7 inches. Massive expansion. .587 at largest point.
    These were both handloads. Shot out of a Government 1911 with a 5 inch barrel. Again max pressure according to Hodgdon.

    I had been carrying the 5 shot snubby. I am rethinking that. The short barrel is a big disadvantage. The Bersa did more damage. And it holds 8 in the mag and one in the pipe. People bad mouth the 380. But, I think it is better than my snubby. It's hard to carry a full sized 1911 in a pocket holster. I carry it in the winter with a heavy coat. But, that is difficult when it is 102 degrees outside.
     
  12. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Wet phone books? Distance?

    Anyhow, thanks for the report. Many times, the new members stop in the Introduction thread and let us know a bit about themselves.

    Welcome from a displaced native Coloradoan.
     
  13. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Distance was about five yards. I wanted it to be at a real life distance.
     
  14. Dizzll

    Dizzll New Member

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    Interesting... excuse me while I go patent paper body armor....