Shooting under water

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by hth3, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. hth3

    hth3 New Member

    14
    0
    0
    What are the dynamics of firing a pistol or rifle under water. Some of us think that the water causes a blockage the same as would dirt or anything else. Some think it makes no difference.

    For instance, we have used a bang stick for shooting alligators in the back of the head with no problem. The question is can a pistol be used for the same purpose if the barrel is two to three inches below the waterline?

    Any thoughts?
    hth3
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    I have a couple of thoughts, actually.

    The first is the change in dynamics around the the pressure and the bullet.

    Having the gun suspended in any medium, even jello, it would fire, but it wouldn't be ideal and COULD result in damage to the weapon.

    Having a gun outside of that medium, but having the barrel stuck in that medium, you would have a ton of pressure that suddenly has nowhere to go but BACK. The force on the round would change from moving through air, to immediate resistance causing tremendous back pressure.

    That is why bang sticks have heavy gas venting in the "stick" part - to keep it from going BANG in the owner's hand.

    My next thought would be: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!

    JD
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOS8lrdeEbY]YouTube - shooting under water[/ame]
     
  4. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    11,380
    1
    0
    Everything I have read about this topic is to turn the barrel up to let out the air and it will work fine.
     
  5. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

    8,358
    4
    0
    Excellent response. Any time in the my military experience a weapon was fired in or about the water, that weapon was turned in and exchanged for reissue ASAP to prevent any FUBAR issues. Same goes with Seal teams. :)

    Jack the Man
     
  6. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

    5,549
    2
    0
    There can be no air pockets inside the bbl or firearm. If fully submerged, the pressure on all components is consistent.

    Back in the 80's SOF Magazine did a test in a swimming pool with a Stainless Randall .45. They determined that the lethal distance of a 230gr ball round under water (for a human) was approximately 18 feet, if I remember right.
     
  7. OC357

    OC357 New Member

    482
    1
    0

    Oh mannnnn, I was just starting to fill the bathtub...and dust off the rubber duckie...:D

    OC
     
  8. AsmelEduardo

    AsmelEduardo New Member

    2,443
    0
    0
    Hey, onther thing that came up when is was thinking in do the same...
    DO NOT USE HOLLOW POINTS!
    HP bullets try to expand inside the barel in a dense material as water
     
  9. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    Am i the only one who keeps thinking of those flame thrower shotgun shells?
     
  10. 753X0

    753X0 New Member

    219
    0
    0
    Water is one of the best bullet stoppers there is. Here's a test about that myth.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEXRfWJNzG8&feature=related]YouTube - Mythbusters Testing Weapons Under Wather subtitle's for Dutch/Netherlands and sound english[/ame]
     
  11. SFCMayhem

    SFCMayhem New Member

    15
    0
    0
    I have seen it done, however keep in mind the pistol would need to be entirely underwater for it to do so. It is def. not recommended, as ammo costs too much, and it adds too many variables for it to be safe. I have done training where we have done this, but it does cut accuracy, velocity, and cycle time drastically. The pressure is equalized on the chamber, however there is still a slight increase. Also, all lubrication if using anything but a heavy moly grease, or DFL is gone after the first shot. The bullet will only travel a small fraction of the speed and velocity as if shot above water line, and the deeper you go, the more the effect (3m, or just over 9ft of H2O=~1 atmosphere of air pressure @ sea level... imagine the pressure in the marianas trench @ ~36k ft!!!). Now some may say it will cause a JHP to open up, however I have never seen it happen. I have seen semi-pistols short stroke, but I have never heard or seen it cause a pistol to become permanently damage, aside from rust, which would be my major concern with doing this. I would not recommend ever doing it because the bullet does not take a predictable path, as the rotation and groove engraved by the rifling cause an odd effect in the water, and actually cause the bullet to fly off course and kinda corkscrew, though it keep orientation. Now if you are talking about shooting under water at a target out of water, only effective if the water depth at the muzzle of a 1911A1 is no more than 4 ft deep, as the bullet leaving the water surface is traveling at half the velocity it normally would, thus making it's effective range going out very short. But I cannot stress enough for you to NOT DO THIS, unless your life were to somehow depend on it. It is relatively quiet as a side note, for those out of the water, though the flash is still visible in shallow water. This is why they have developed underwater specialty weapons, such as the P-11, which fire darts and have a smooth bore, and a pusher much like a shotgun wad. most pistol rounds are water tight, and another side note, the whole oil and solvent on a bullet thing, no effect, other than some increased gunkage and spots embedded on the brass/primer cap. Oh and brass from firing underwater may not completely seal the chamber, and is usually notably easier to reload.
     
  12. OC357

    OC357 New Member

    482
    1
    0
    Squirt guns........of course.

    OC
     
  13. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Not the Rubber Duckie Man!! Show some humanity for crying out loud! :eek:
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    All of them, if handled properly. The thing is, none of them are particularly lethal.

    Underwater, you need to be thinking about a spear gun, or an equally engineered type of underwater device.
     
  15. OC357

    OC357 New Member

    482
    1
    0
    It's too late....the rubber duckie is KIA......:D

    OC
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    You'll pay for that, Rab-bit.
     
  17. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    Side note, do NOT fire the speargun out of water without unhooking the steel cable that attaches the spear to the gun, trust me. You should also not leave the spear gun where an teenage employee could find it and potentially play darts with it.
     
  18. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Now THAT sounds like a thead called "Stupid Shi'ite I have seen done" just waiting to be opened. :D
     
  19. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    More like "stuff i did & now realize it was reeeeeeally dumb". Learning experiences can be funny, but usually not at the time.

    Same boss would go out of town & leave two teenagers to run his shop & guard his attached apartment with its usually well-stocked bar. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    LOL - If I had your diet plan, I would need a heavy cornerstone of booze too. :D

    So, what was the end result of the speargun out of the water??