Shooting results are lousy

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by kdog, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. kdog

    kdog New Member

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    Hi guys,

    at the moment I am a bit demotivated.
    The last two time at the range, my shooting results had been really lousy.
    My result have never been really good and I hardly get any close groups together, but I am not getting better at the moment, rather worse.

    Here some facts:
    Firearm: CZ75 Pre "B" in 9mm Luger
    Grip: Trausch TJ75 for my small hands
    Ammo: MagTech 124 Grain (have tried other ammo, same results)
    Target Distance: 25m (approx. 25 yards)
    Range type: Closed inside Range and a half open outside range

    The round in the target are all over the upper area of the target. I mean it would be fine to shoot somebody, but that is not what I am practissing.
    I can`t shoot at alternative distances at those ranges and the other ranges are to far away.

    I pratice at home by dry firing, and the pistol is, for my feeling, very steady and not all over the place.

    I go shooting twice per month in average.

    Any advice?
     
  2. Flint Rock

    Flint Rock New Member

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    Well, let's assume for the moment that the gun is fine and that you are the one in need of help (sorry, that may have hurt). When I have a student that is a new shooter I start things a lot closer than 25 yards. A target at 25 yards is too far for the average shooter to shoot at and have satisfying hits on. If you were my student everything would start sitting at 5 yards, shooting off a rest. At that range you can get good hits which is great for your self confidence, and you develop an understanding of where your bullets are going vs. your aim point. If you can get a friend to watch the gun while you fire (Note - I said watch the gun, not the target) they can tell you if you are flinching when you press the trigger.
    Once you master the 5 yard, sitting, using a rest, target, then you can stand up and try the two handed Weaver stance. Concentrate on you trigger press and focus on the front sight. I have had students that went through 50-100 rounds in the seated position before they settled down and started shooting groups at 5 yards that were acceptable.
    When you are comfortable at 5 yards, step up to 10, but if the wheels start to come off the wagon, move the target in to 7 yards (which is common gun fighting range). 25 yards comes later. Never be embarrassed to use a rest, take your time, or use your sights!:)
     

  3. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    I agree that 25 meters (longer than 25 yds) is a long distance for someone starting out. At that distance, it is difficult to sight in a pistol especially if not shooting from a rest.
     
  4. kdog

    kdog New Member

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    I have been shooting for over a year now, so I wouldn`t say I am a beginner.
    And no feelings hurt. I know I am making the mistakes, I just don`t know wich ones.

    It is pretty hard finding a shooting range here in germany, where I can do close target shooting, due to the stupid german gun laws and rules. We are stuck to the 25 meters. I would have to get a lucky day, when nobody else is at the range, so I could go close to the target.
     
  5. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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  6. kdog

    kdog New Member

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    Yeah, I have tried to examine my mistakes using that target, but I can`t pinpoint the mistakes, because they are all over the place. See the screenshot.
    Taking that target, I would be making three mistakes at the same time or after each other.

    That would mean I would be heeling and pushing in anticipation of the recoil and breaking up my wrist at the same time.
    How likely would that be?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Those "helpful" targets are indicative of problems with one handed grips. Specifically a right hand grip on the last one posted.
     
  8. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    Have you used a bench rest at that range to determine the mechanical accuracy of your handgun?

    Once you determine the POA/POI of your handgun, you'll be able to determine what you can do to improve your groupings.
     
  9. kdog

    kdog New Member

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    We tried the benchrest they have at the range, but it just dosn`t fit. The tables they have on the range are to low, the barrier ist far to low and the benchrest itself sucks and couldn`t be set for my CZ75.

    I don`t doupt the accuracy of my CZ75, I am the problem.
    I hit the target fairly constant. I think the size f the standard target here in germany is 50cm by 50cm with a center target of 26cm by 26cm.
    The black area goes from ring 7 to the bulls eye and measures approx. 20cm.
    So the actual target area I want to hit measures 20cm.
    But I am getting to high. That means I am above the 26cm center target area.

    Can you follow? Also this is on 25m, so the 26cm center target is a bit smaller...;-)
     
  10. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    kdog,

    Without actually having a firearms instructor watch your stance and form, it is very difficult to get a handle on any possible issues. Also, until you can get to a closer target and shoot from a bench rest of some sort, the accuracy of the arm itself can not be qualified.

    Seems like there are those who have been attempting to help, but due to circumstances beyond your control, this assistance can't be practiced.

    I suggest you take personal instruction at your range or a private session to weed out any obvious issues.
     
  11. kdog

    kdog New Member

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    Yeah,

    I have the suspicion,I will have to do that.

    Thank`s for all the replies though.
     
  12. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    +1 on SC advise, Not something the interweb can help solve.
     
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i can give my two primers on training solo. what i do when i think i am having issues with shooting is make some ammo with spent primers and no powder and drill a hole in the side of the case. i will mix those into a magazine they will show me right off if i am jerking the trigger or some such thing as i am shooting. you can substitute snap caps in place of dummy rounds they serve the same purpose just becareful of hot barrels and plastic snap caps. flinching while firing rounds 2 and 3 and beyound is a common problem and that just takes awareness of what is happening. which is what a dummy round helps notice. it is helpful to have someone else load the magazine or cylinder for you so you do not know where the dummy round is. this will detect flinching rather dramatically and usually cures the flinch with regular practice.

    another thing is placeing a coin on the barrel near the front sight and dry firing this excercise will greatly improve trigger control. i can get it down to keeping the coin on barrel or slide while pulling the trigger. just remember to treat the gun as loaded when dry firing. this excercise is extremly difficult and nearly impossible with a DA only weapon. make sure that whatever you are using is wider than the barrel or slide.

    a laser that actually projects a dot on the target is a good way to demonstrate flinch and jerking trigger pulls while dry firing. i like using a boresight laser for this sort of thing when using scoped weapons.

    just a few ideas that should let you find and work out those problems.

    Good luck
     
  14. OlPainless

    OlPainless New Member

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    We don't all have to get technical...

    My philosophy is this, sometimes shooting is alot like pooping, it can be time consuming, often difficult, uncomfortable, and let's face it, on bad days it's just not pretty.
     
  15. Troy Michalik

    Troy Michalik Is it Friday yet? Supporter

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    KDog, I think you said that you are consistently shooting the top of the target. Could it be as simple as adjusting your sight picture? Sorry if this was already suggested, but it was the first thing I thought of.
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    sorry wasnt trying to be pendantic just trying to offer the OP some ideas on how to train solo sans instructor. and offer him some techniques i use to improve my ability :)
     
  17. OlPainless

    OlPainless New Member

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    I didn't intend for my post to sound as a counter to your input. You have some very helpful ideas there, I like the idea of using a coin for trigger control. I just tend to be a little "on the lighter side" from time to time. :D

    I look forward to seeing more posts from you, good stuff Jon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009