[richardt22]

Just thought I'd share my experience at the shooting range today and see what everyone's thoughts are.

So I went to a small compact shooting range in Modesto, CA. The range has about 5 lanes and a very very small area behind the lanes to load your clips. So as I walk into the range I notice that two shooters were walking off the lane with their Glocks slide forward. Let me tell you I was nervous as hell for about 15 mins (the time it took for them to leave). I even took a sec or two to actually tell them that they need to be very careful with that gun since there are so many accidents with the glocks. What would everyone else have done? Would anyone else been as worried as i was?

My shooting range habit

1- Lay my HK USP Compact 40 on the table in the firing lane with the safety on and the slide back and pointed down range.
2- load my clip on the table behind the firing lane.
3- walk up to the firing lane pick up my pistol still making sure its pointed down range, load clip and release slide
4- get into shooting position take aim on target with index finger off trigger
5- release safety put index finger on trigger ... breath and squeeze one off
6- once clip is finished put safety back on remove clip and lay gun back on table in firing lane.
7- walk back to table with clip and reload.

 

[mudpuppy]

Your procedure is the way we do it at the indoor range where I shoot, and the range managers will instruct people on keeping to that procedure.

At the gun club where I shoot outdoors, all guns come to the line in cases, unloaded & actions open and magazines are loaded with guns pointed downrange. There are no back tables for loading. Only 1 gun at a time is allowed on the table.

That's the way I like it and the safety record at the club is 100%. Many other clubs have asked for our written safety rules and put them into effect at their ranges.

 

[fapprez]

At the gun club where I shoot outdoors, all guns come to the line in cases, unloaded & actions open and magazines are loaded with guns pointed downrange. There are no back tables for loading. Only 1 gun at a time is allowed on the table.

That's the way things a done at the range I go to. Safety is very important, especially with all the new shooters the sport is getting.

I think you were in line in your approach to these guys, as long as you didn't come off as being mean, Richardt22. Sometimes people forget what the range officer said or maybe they just don't know. Either way, safety first.

 

[Dillinger]

What you are describing happens at ranges all over the country.

For about 6 years I was a traveling contractor and tried to always keep up my practice by attending whatever local range was available without membership.

It was not uncommon at all to see people sweeping side to side in the booth, taking weapons from booth to booth and basically being complete nimrods about their whole time there. Frequently I would try to find out when competitions were scheduled and try to arrange to be there shortly before, or shortly after they were going on, because that tends to weed out the "less desireables".

Always, Always, ALWAYS keep safety in mind as your number one job when at the range. Not only your personal habits, but those around you as well, because those are the nutbags that are going to put you at risk...

JD

 

[rickrem700]

Range safty

richardt22 those clips you are reloading are magazines, and GLOCKS have three saftys on them the reason you hear about so many accidents with them is because so many people use them, any gun with the slide forward in the situation you described is a dangerous!!!
I get what you are saying everytime I visit a public range I just cring at what goes on there it's not just young people but grown men that you would think would be more careful, two years ago at a public range in Indiana I had the missfortune of sitting next to a guy trying to teach his way to young son how to shoot a rifle that was taller than he was, it was a Endfield and the kid could not have been nore than 6-7 dad was sitting at a picnic table while this kid is wobbeling all over the place trying to keep the rifle under controle at the bench, just then the horn sounded to tell shooters to lay down there weapons and go forward to check your targets and pick up brass and what not, and this kid turns around somewhat confused as to what is going on, and discharges the rifle shooting a round through the stock of my bench rifle and dang near killing two other people next to me, you could amagine, my heart about stoped!!! it was on this day I realized I'm sorry really dosent fix anything, that guy was just beside himself and could do nothing else but take the creadit of being a fool!!! He and his boy were escorted away from the range were they sat in the parking lot humiliated waiting with there check book to compensate me for the damage to my stock, I really wanted to read this guy the riot act but it was one of those situations were everything I would have said he already knew at this point, HARD LESSON!!!

 

[G21.45]

Wow! I get so sick and tired of reading the same internet palaver over and over again that, (Ready?) magazines aren't clips. According to, both, longstanding historical usage throughout the entire Western World, and The National Rifle Association (Who ought to know!)

Magazines ARE clips!

In, both, firearm advertising and proper technical usage it is perfectly correct to refer to a magazine as a clip. The only place you will hear this isn't true is on internet firearms forums where the rumor has been allowed to grow unabated like a tumor until all the gun wannabees absolutely believe it and continue to parrot it to one another.




(Does everyone, also, know that ALL handguns are correctly referred to as, 'pistols'?)

 

[richardt22]

thanks G21.45 where i come from magazines and clips are the same.

rickrem700 sorry to inform you but the Glock does not have a manual safety thus making it a very unsafe gun even in a trained person hands. Have you read about police officers having accidents with the Glocks? Great gun just not a safe gun...nothing beats a manual safety

 

[DSAPT9]

richardt22

My shooting range habit

1- Lay my HK USP Compact 40 on the table in the firing lane with the safety on and the slide back and pointed down range.
2- load my clip on the table behind the firing lane.
3- walk up to the firing lane pick up my pistol still making sure its pointed down range, load clip and release slide
4- get into shooting position take aim on target with index finger off trigger
5- release safety put index finger on trigger ... breath and squeeze one off
6- once clip is finished put safety back on remove clip and lay gun back on table in firing lane.
7- walk back to table with clip and reload.

You have a fine set of rules richardt22 and are the basic rules of many shooting ranges. I agree with several others that many people may not have under stood the rules or have been never told why you leave the slide open.

richardt22
rickrem700 sorry to inform you but the Glock does not have a manual safety thus making it a very unsafe gun even in a trained person hands. Have you read about police officers having accidents with the Glocks? Great gun just not a safe gun...nothing beats a manual safety

I disagree the Glock pistol is very safe. The manual safety is the operator's brain if you do not engage it it will not work!

Rule #1 A firearm is always loaded and should be treated as such! I don’t care how many times you check it.

Rule #2 Do not point at anything you do not wish to shoot. Know your target and surroundings!

Rule #3 Keep your booger hook off the trigger until you are ready to shoot and it will not go off.

Rule #4 A manual safety is a mechanical device that you use but do not trust as with all mechanical devices it can fail.

I taught Hunter Safety for a number of years and we covered the Ten Commandments of firearm safety but I drove these four rules home as much as possible. After reading several hundred cases of hunting accidents these four rules where the most abused.

I do not wish to offend any law officers but most are not gun guys or gals and only carry because they have to. Most of the reports I have seen and read basically state the operator had their finger on the trigger and training with what they thought was a unloaded weapon. They did not follow the basic firearm safety rules.
No fault of the Glock, just operator error.

In the late 80s early 90 most of our local law enforcement went with the Smith & Wesson autos. OK guns with a manual safety. But they started to have a number of accidental discharges. It seems that folks kept forgetting to engage the safety after range time and then sometimes they would pull the trigger to test the safety only to find out they forgot to engage it. At the time there where a lot of reports with the words “I thought the safety was on”. Most of it was due to lack of training time with the firearm and basic firearm safety.

So the firearm does not matter if you don’t follow the basic rules.

I do agree it does not matter if it is called a Magazine or Clip. In the real old days a Magazine was a place you stored black power to keep it safe and dry or was it a subscription to your favorite gun magazine. A clip is what you use to hold you tie in place with. Right?

 

[spittinfire]

+1!! If you follow those 4 simple rules you'll always handle a firearm safely. The Marine Corp pouded those rules into my head and my dad did before they got a hold of me. I'm teaching my wife to shoot and we constantly go over those 4 rules. Whenever I'm teaching someone I always tell them, if anything happens or you are unsure of something just lay the weapon down, pointed down range and take 2 steps back. I'm right beside them the whole time and I can quickly clear the weapon so everyone remains safe.

Richard, I would have been just as nervous as you were and probably would have done the same thing. I've left ranges early because of similar situations. Now I'm lucky enough to be able to go out in my back yard and shoot my pistols all day long.......now if I could only do that with my rifles!

 

[G21.45]

I don't want to argue; but, I do feel a certain obligation to respond to the main topic of this thread.

First, every range I shoot at has one principal rule that no one is ever allowed to violate. Rifles are a little different; but, with the sole exception of one indoor range, I am allowed to show up wearing a loaded pistol. However, once the weapon is removed from the holster:

THE MUZZLE POINTS IN ONLY ONE DIRECTION - DOWNRANGE - AND NEVER ANYWHERE ELSE.

Before you begin a match you have to walk to the firing line, stand in front of a safety officer, remove the pistol's magazine and clear the chamber in order to, 'make ready' before anything else happens. Afterwards you only load a magazine and chamber a round when you're told to; and, you must completely clear the weapon immediately when finished shooting, AND keep it that way! Behind the firing line no magazines are allowed to be in the gun.

Pistols never come off the firing line in hand. Anyone who attempted to casually walk away from the firing line with a pistol in hand would hear, in a very loud voice,

STOP! KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER! TURN AROUND, NOW, AND POINT THAT MUZZLE DOWNRANGE. RETURN TO THE FIRING LINE. PUT THE GUN DOWN; AND, WAIT FOR ME TO COME OVER TO YOU!

For the record, I carry a Glock pistol. It is NOT a safe weapon! I handle firearms all day long. Twice during my life I've been struck by either an accidentially fired, or a negligently discharged round. (And, I've got the scars to prove it!)

With the bitter voice of experience, I'm able to tell you that there is no such thing as a perfectly safe firearm - No such thing! You always have to take, 'THE HUMAN IDIOT FACTOR' into consideration! Once a Glock has a round chambered it is a, 'ticking timebomb' that can suddenly go off for a wide variety of different reasons or because of numerous diverse circumstances.

A Glock with a loaded magazine inserted into the frame is, at best, only a marginally safe pistol. A Glock pistol may be considered to be safe under only two specific conditions: (1) When it is in C-3; or, (2) When it is securely holstered.

If anyone doubts what I've just said, I will remind you that; 'I am, as far as I know, the only one here professional enough to handle a Glock Fo-Tee!'

(Don't laugh! Your government trained him!)

 

[Dillinger]

If anyone doubts what I've just said, I will remind you that; 'I am, as far as I know, the only one here professional enough to handle a Glock Fo-Tee!'

BANG!

And THAT is one of the key reasons that I feel that particular handgun is not AS SAFE as other brands that are out there on the market with other, operational safeties on them.

JD

 

[mudpuppy]

a guy trying to teach his way to young son how to shoot a rifle that was taller than he was, it was a Endfield and the kid could not have been nore than 6-7 dad was sitting at a picnic table while this kid is wobbeling all over the place trying to keep the rifle under controle at the bench

This post brings up another topic that many grown men do to their kids that ruins their skill/enjoyment of shooting. That is having a kid shoot a gun that is way beyond their capability to handle - in terms of aim, control and recoil. And, an Enfield is way beyond what a 6-7 year old should be handling.

If you want to purposefully build in a "flinch" to a future shooter, have them start out with something that is HARD TO CONTROL, LOUD, KICKS LIKE MULE and SCARES HELL OUT OF THEM EVERYTIME THEY PULL THE TRIGGER.

How many times have you heard "Yeah, first time I shot my granddad's 12 guage double it put me on my back". Think that guy is a good shot? If he is, he put in a lot of time at the range getting over his first experience.

Start the kids out with a .22 and ear protection and work up as they grow up.

I took my 13 year old granddaughter to the range 2 weeks ago for some gun training and shooting. The guys at the next table were a granddad and his grandson who was entering the Marines the following week. The granddad was teaching the grandson to shoot an AR15. The grandson had never shot a gun (where has granddad been all these years?). Granddaughter and I were shooting my Ruger 10/22 and 22/45. Granddad offered to let granddaughter shoot his AR. I thanked him but declined and told him I wanted her to become confident in her .22 handling before moving to something that was much louder and with a felt recoil. He understood and said that was a good approach.

 

[gorknoids]

Months ago I caused a stir by suggesting that Glocks are, let's say, not built as well as they could be. Bring the hate.

I shoot at a pretty old range here, and when I first took my son there, I showed him the holes in the overhead, the bench, and everywhere else there shouldn't have been holes. I explained to him that they were "people holes", because if it hadn't been for careless, stupid people, they wouldn't exist. Then we went through an entire FAMFIRE brief.
Virginia is an open-carry state, but when I go to shoot paper, the gun is in the bag and the mag is out. The slide does not lock open (I have to be able to count to 5) so slide position is not a factor. I do everything I can do to keep an accidental discharge from occurring, and that's why my next gun will be a Sig Sauer.

 

[tallguy130]

I'm new to the sport but the one thing I'm religious about is safty. Even in the short time I've been shooting I've seen some people at the range who scared the crap out of me. Nine times out of ten its some tool acting like he's a gang-banger.

Not growing up around them gives you a good health fear.

Forgive my ignorance gorknoids, but why is a Sig Sauer better for preventing a accidental discharge?

 

[cpttango30]

This post brings up another topic that many grown men do to their kids that ruins their skill/enjoyment of shooting. That is having a kid shoot a gun that is way beyond their capability to handle - in terms of aim, control and recoil. And, an Enfield is way beyond what a 6-7 year old should be handling.

If you want to purposefully build in a "flinch" to a future shooter, have them start out with something that is HARD TO CONTROL, LOUD, KICKS LIKE MULE and SCARES HELL OUT OF THEM EVERYTIME THEY PULL THE TRIGGER.

How many times have you heard "Yeah, first time I shot my granddad's 12 guage double it put me on my back". Think that guy is a good shot? If he is, he put in a lot of time at the range getting over his first experience.

OMG I can't stand people like this. Doing things like this make me want to (In A Cartman voice) KICK THEM IN THE NUTS.....

For everytime they have done that to a kid I would really like to walk by out of nowhere and just kick them as hard as humaly possiable. Without them knowing it was going to happen then see what happens after about 2 times.

I even got on a guy a few weeks ago at the range for getting on his kid he loaded and handed a kit a walther 22 with a 3" barrel and a DAO trigger. So I took the red dot off my neos and said here try this might be able for him to hold better and it is a little quieter than that one. What do you know a little less recoil and noise the kid was shooting 4" groups off hand at abotu 10 yards not bad for a 6yo fist time shooting. Then I let him shoot my 22 rifle he loved it so much I think he went threw 500 rounds while the guys were talking.

 

[full auto]

Glock

I don't want to argue; but, I do feel a certain obligation to respond to the main topic of this thread.

First, every range I shoot at has one principal rule that no one is ever allowed to violate. Rifles are a little different; but, with the sole exception of one indoor range, I am allowed to show up wearing a loaded pistol. However, once the weapon is removed from the holster:

THE MUZZLE POINTS IN ONLY ONE DIRECTION - DOWNRANGE - AND NEVER ANYWHERE ELSE.

Before you begin a match you have to walk to the firing line, stand in front of a safety officer, remove the pistol's magazine and clear the chamber in order to, 'make ready' before anything else happens. Afterwards you only load a magazine and chamber a round when you're told to; and, you must completely clear the weapon immediately when finished shooting, AND keep it that way! Behind the firing line no magazines are allowed to be in the gun.

Pistols never come off the firing line in hand. Anyone who attempted to casually walk away from the firing line with a pistol in hand would hear, in a very loud voice,

STOP! KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER! TURN AROUND, NOW, AND POINT THAT MUZZLE DOWNRANGE. RETURN TO THE FIRING LINE. PUT THE GUN DOWN; AND, WAIT FOR ME TO COME OVER TO YOU!

For the record, I carry a Glock pistol. It is NOT a safe weapon! I handle firearms all day long. Twice during my life I've been struck by either an accidentially fired, or a negligently discharged round. (And, I've got the scars to prove it!)

With the bitter voice of experience, I'm able to tell you that there is no such thing as a perfectly safe firearm - No such thing! You always have to take, 'THE HUMAN IDIOT FACTOR' into consideration! Once a Glock has a round chambered it is a, 'ticking timebomb' that can suddenly go off for a wide variety of different reasons or because of numerous diverse circumstances.

A Glock with a loaded magazine inserted into the frame is, at best, only a marginally safe pistol. A Glock pistol may be considered to be safe under only two specific conditions: (1) When it is in C-3; or, (2) When it is securely holstered.

If anyone doubts what I've just said, I will remind you that; 'I am, as far as I know, the only one here professional enough to handle a Glock Fo-Tee!'

(Don't laugh! Your government trained him!)

Hello all. In my 24 years belonging to the worlds largest police department and and having to qualify several times a year,(standing next to 40+ shooters on the line) I have yet to see these Glock malfunctions that are being discussed. Having purchased my Glock long before the dept authorized it, and shooting it extensively, it has performed as expected. To say the Glock is an unsafe auto is grossly inaccurate. I mean this with no disrespect. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mark F]

Wow! I get so sick and tired of reading the same internet palaver over and over again that, (Ready?) magazines aren't clips. According to, both, longstanding historical usage throughout the entire Western World, and The National Rifle Association (Who ought to know!)

Magazines ARE clips!

In, both, firearm advertising and proper technical usage it is perfectly correct to refer to a magazine as a clip. The only place you will hear this isn't true is on internet firearms forums where the rumor has been allowed to grow unabated like a tumor until all the gun wannabees absolutely believe it and continue to parrot it to one another.

(Does everyone, also, know that ALL handguns are correctly referred to as, 'pistols'?)

OK, Explain this...
http://www.thegunzone.com/clips-mags.html

Clips do not have feed springs, magazines DO.

 

[Mark F]

thanks G21.45 where i come from magazines and clips are the same.

OK, explain this...
http://www.thegunzone.com/clips-mags.html

Where is it you come from?

 

[KellyTTE]

the two ninja secrets to weapons safety?

finger.

muzzle.

Don't like how people are acting at the range? Its up to you to either police them yourself or go talk to the range owners/management. All you other guys talking about mags and clips. DIAF, go start a new thread and pollute that.

 

[SGT-MILLER]

Does it really matter if someone calls them magazines or clips?

Dood....zOMG!!!!! That's not a gun! That's a pistol! Pistol is for shooting, gun is for fun! NOOB!

How dare you refer to a bullet holder as a magazine or clip!

A magazine is for reading, and a clip is for your hair. We should call it the metal box thingy that hold the bullets.

Why do you call it a sidearm? It's not an "arm"! It's a gun! *slap*

It's not ammunition, it's bullets! Ammunition sounds too official. In fact, lets just call them steel zingers!


Sorry, been too serious lately. Just wanting to have fun.