Shooting incidents in Detroit

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by clip11, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    A few weeks ago, a man was robbed with what turned out to be a fake gun. He was a CPL holder. After the robbery, as the robber was escaping, the 65 year old CPL holder chased after him and started shooting. The robber was not hit, but one of the bullets he fired went through a house and hit an elderly woman and killed her. The robber was later caught by police and charged with the womans killing. However, they were also considering charging the CPL holder with her death.

    In another incident here, a man caught another man breaking into his garage. He was a CPL holder as well and chased the man off his property. But he continued chasing the man even after he was off the property for i think a half block. He then shot the man and killed him. He was charged with 2nd degree murder.

    Do you think any of these CPL holders should be charged with a crime? Why or why not?
     
  2. WannaGator

    WannaGator New Member

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    I agree with both for pulling their firearms but not chasing/shooting the Perps.

    Shoot to stop harm to yourself or others but not for revenge.

    Just my $.02.
     

  3. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    I agree in protecting yourself, others and your property but with the limited information you've given here neither of these men were in danger and should not have fired their weapons.
     
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    First off, how are there two people involved in shootings IN DETROIT who have carry licenses?!?! :eek:

    I thought that was a VERY tough city to get a permit in.

    If the information given is correct, both men should be charged as neither of them took the responsibility for what the CCW License is really for.

    This Permit/License is not for "Street Justice". Once you start chasing someone, especially a person that is no longer on your property, you pretty much lose any right to claim "Life Endangerment" and thus you will be promptly screwed in the eyes of the law.

    There is no doubt that emotions carry sway and none of us can say what we would or would not be able to do - but facts are facts.

    If you carry a weapon, you have a responsibility to carry it for the right reasons and to exercise restraint.

    In these examples, it would appear that was not the case.

    JD
     
  5. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    Michigan is a shall issue state. I think it used to be a may issue before 2001.
     
  6. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO New Member

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    Yes to both and for the same reason. A Concealed Carry permit allows you to carry, not to think yourself a non sworn officer. You are allowed to draw your weapon and use it if there is real danger to life and limb, NOT once the perp has turned and run away.

    Once the BG turns and tries to leave, the danger has ceased. So has your legal right to use a firearm for self defense for that incident.
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Even a police officer has sharp limits on circumstances where he is justified in shooting someone. Nothing on the cases mentioned makes it sound like a good shooting. Along with the RIGHT to carry is the RESPONSIBILTY to act like a grownup.
     
  8. divinginn

    divinginn New Member

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    I would like to see sources for this,it sounds like something the antis would put out showing how evil cc is.
     
  9. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    The police get paid to chase the bad guys; my vote would be to let them do the chasing.
     
  10. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    Detroit woman killed by carjacking victim's stray bullet | detnews.com | The Detroit News This is for the second incident when it first happened.

    Detroit Man Shoots and Kills Burglar; Gets Charged with Manslaughter This is the first story.
    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/22089705/detail.html

    The incident in which the woman was killed happened around the corner from where I stay at.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  11. JoeB1987

    JoeB1987 New Member

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    Both are idiots...

    Neither cases are justified, and both should be held completely responsible for their actions.
     
  12. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    I think that when you go out and violate another persons rights,you forfeit your own rights and if that person guns you down like the scumbag you are-then you got what was coming to you.I dont much like back-shooting however,unless your in combat.Even then I dont think I'd shoot at people with their back turned from me as their running away.Its just distasteful.

    Maybe if these muggers,rapists,murderers,'gangstas' and carjackers knew they were subject to their prospective victims wrath as much if not more so then their victim is subject to their criminal assault-some things would really CHANGE in this nation.:mad:

    As for the poor lady that was shot in her home-the guy who started the criminal incident should be charged with murder.Not the guy defending himself and his right to be left alone by welfare-fed nanny state coddled predators.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  13. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    They did charge the robber with felony murder. They are considering in charging the man.
     
  14. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Yeah.Thats good.

    But I still dont really like that the guy with the gun was shooting at a man's back as he was running from him.
     
  15. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    I agree with JD on this one. The threat was ended the VICTIMS legally had no right to fire their guns, however, once the encounter begins, I could see it being very difficult to "turn off".
    How about something like this, if a woman, who has a CPL, and has a firearm in her purse, gets overpowered and raped. And after the guy is done, she gets to her firearm and shoots him dead. Technically the threat is over,Should she be charged?
     
  16. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    Thats a good point, but the difficult thing is that the law is based on self defense not retaliation. And rape, in and of itself, is alot of times hard to prove. A rape story is easy to make up, and when its one persons word against another it makes it hard. Even if you have DNA evidence, it may prove sex occured but not rape.
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    A difficult question to answer, because I think some of the hypothetical is still missing from the question.

    IF the woman still feared for her life, in the case of the attacker might still have control of her, might kill her for seeing his face, or something of the case, then I would say she is still in the "fear for my life" self defense phase.

    If the rape happened while she was running through the park, the attacker finished and took off running to get away from the seen, I would have to say I totally understand her shooting the hell out of the guy, but it would not be "self defense" as described.

    These questions make me glad I don't have to answer them with someone's life and liberty in the balance. How can you selflessly charge a woman when what you prescribe for your own family would be different for another because of the name on your office door? :confused:

    JD
     
  18. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    I chose this type of scenario because, IMO a rape doesn't really end, so to the woman, the threat could last indefinitly. It is a tough one to call, that's why I put it the way I did. If I was on the jury I could not ,in good concience, find the woman guilty of a crime. Now I don't mean she tracked him down a couple of days later but the shooting was as the perp was leaving.
     
  19. Normal

    Normal New Member

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    I agree. Your weapon does not justify you to carry out an execution of a criminal. It is only there to assist you in getting you out of a life threatening situation.

    IMO- The guy that shot at the street mugger and ended up killing the woman should be charged with murder.