Shooting cast lead reloads with issues

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by ETORDIE, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    I have been trying to get into the reloading scene being I am no longer allowed to play with my explosives (retired). Started loading some 9mm rounds using a Lyman turret press and Lee dies (factory crimp). I am using IMR SR4756 (4.5 gr) and 125 grain round nose lead. My issue is when I fire them through my Tokarov I can shoot 15 to 19 rounds and then my weapon will not go into battery. I know it is probably a lead issue but does anyone know what else I can do to help this along?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  2. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Not a reloader myself, but you'll probably be asked what your alloying the lead with.

    And is this a 9mm gun, or the 7.62X? that shoots at velocities almost on par with a .357 mag?

    Edit: never mind, you said "rounds".
     

  3. johnr1943

    johnr1943 New Member

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    Hot barrel and lead don't play well together. A friend almost ruined a new M&P Shield (9mm also) with lead reloads. IIRC semi-autos work better with jacketed ammo. :)
     
  4. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    These bullets were purchased cast and lubed. I have since purchased some plated bullets, which brings me to another question. is there a difference in jacketed and plated rounds when reloading?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  5. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    I had originally purchased the bullets pre-lubed from proofmark so I am unsure of the alloy content. I have since purchased plated bullets to try which I will be shooting in the morning. that also brings me to another question. Is there a difference in jacketed and plated when you are reloading? sorry for the repeats, I'm a rookie to this forum thing.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  6. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I shoot lead in .380, 9mm, .40 and 45acp with no issues at all. I often load them pretty hot too.

    If your gun is not going into battery I would be looking at the way you are expanding/belling the mouth of the case. You should open it up just enough to be able to start a bullet. You also need to make sure that the bullet is in the case nice and straight before seating it. And then you need to make sure that you crimp only just enough to remove the bell.

    When you are done with a few rounds disassemble your gun. Take the barrel over to your bench and test fit each round. They should slide easily into the chamber. They should go all they way in without resistance. If they don't you are not doing something right.

    I have seen where a bullet was put in the case not perfectly straight. It deformed the side of the case just enough that the case would not chamber properly. I am betting you are looking at something like this. It may not be that 15 rounds into shooting you developed a problem with your gun. But that you had 14 good straight bullets before you found a bad one. If you are not looking for this problem you may not see it.
     
  7. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    Thanks for the reply! I removed that round and tried to chamber several more with nothing going into battery. I cleaned my weapon and then it seemed to work again but with the same results after 15 to 19 rounds.
    When you load lead do you have to clean it again? I did notice small slivers of lead around the mouth of the casing which I cleaned off.
     
  8. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    If you have small slivers of lead on the outside of the case that is your problem. You are probably not expanding your brass enough. You are shaving a tiny amount of lead as you seat the bullet. I have done that myself when I was first getting started. As far as cleaning, I clean after shooting lead about as often as shooting jacketed ammo. I can shoot an IDPA match with over 100 rounds down range without any trouble at all. I do sometimes get a little lead build up in my barrel. But nothing to worry about. Take a copper "Chore Boy" pot scrubber from K-Mart. Cut it into squares. Wrap it around a regular cleaning brush. Run it through the barrel real fast for about 30 seconds. Clean as new! Don't worry about scratching the barrel. It is made to have copper coated bullet flying 1000 fps out of it. You couldn't scratch it with a Chore Boy if you tried.
     
  9. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Rick nailed it. Auto pistol cartridges headspace off the mouth of the case. You are scraping lead off the sides of the bullet, and it piles up on the case rim.

    RE: load data for plated bullets- when all else fails, read instructions.

    From Berry's Bullets website:

    Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.
     
  10. bildee

    bildee New Member

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    did you deburr the case mouths, inside and out, the first time that they were reloaded? that muist be done, albeit very lightly. if you over do this, the cases will split lengthwise in a very few reloadings. but if you don't do it, you get your problem. It does not need to be done more than the once.
     
  11. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    Thanks for all the advice! I did shoot the plated reloads today and got 23 out of 25 to fire the other two did not chamber as the nose of the rounds hung up in the feed process. I think that is an issue with the cheap 9mm though. I will work on the brass expansion bit. Very happy though!

    Joey
     
  12. firelooker

    firelooker New Member

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    I'm having the same problem w/ lead building up on the side of the case, I do flare the case but maybe I'm not flaring it enough. I'm loading 9mm, I'm just now getting back into reloading I used to reload for .357 mag but used factory JHP bullets & now I'm casting my own for the 9mm & hope to buy a pair of handles for the .45 soon.
     
  13. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    It may well be a leading issue. Try this first: Have you done the scientifically named "Plunk Test?
    Remove your beautifully clean barrel from your pistol, and drop a finished round into it (El Cheapo cartridge gauge). Does it drop in completely without any assistance whatsoever?
    No?
    Check your OAL. You may need to run them shorter to alleviate this problem. If they are a bit on the longish side, you may not run into problems until fouling comes into play. I do know, it takes very little resistance to bring things to a stop,
    I run cast in everything. The only similar problem I've experienced was with .45 acp. It was fixed with the Lee FCD, which you already use.

    Most plated bullet makers recommend lead data, or absent that, low end jacketed. I know Rainier recommends keeping velocities below 1300 fps. I understand that the plating becomes somewhat unpredictable above that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
  14. MOshooter

    MOshooter New Member

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    Lots of good experienced advice given it could be a leading fouling problem?

    What i'm wondering is where did you get your brass to reload for the 9mm?
    If it's range brass and you don't know what gun fired them you could be running into the problem of Glock bulged brass? Even with your resizing die set properly there are several manufacturer dies that will not take the very low to the base bulge out of the brass that's been shot from a Glock.

    If you can pick up a cartridge gauge for the 9mm,that way after you have resized your brass you can drop each brass in the 9mm cartridge gauge to make sure your brass is sized properly before seating your primer,powder charge and bullet in the case. The cartridge gauge will also check your OAL over all length of the cartridge.

    Most of my handguns I cast my bullets for practice in semi autos and revolvers,the only slight problem i've run into with was Glock bulged brass.
    ymmv
     
  15. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    More great info! I have heard of the case bulge issue and still need to get a cartridge gauge. I need to find one online as non of the store I go to have them in stock. Overkill thanks for the reload information for plating.

    Joey
     
  16. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    As Rick said the case mouth must be properly belled prior to insertion of a bullet. The FCD should remove the belling and SLIGHTLY crimp. Bullet seating and crimping MUST be done in a separate operation.

    You may need to play with overall length (OAL). 9mm is a bit picky on length. You want the bullet close to the rifling to minimize the amount of velocity it atttains prior to contacting the rifling. I load 9mm as long as possible and still fit in the magazine.

    Cast bullets and plated bullets should be loaded using the same data. Jacketed data is different
     
  17. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    Ok so I just need to go back and look at widening (belling) the case mouth and ensure I use the cast data for the plated bullets. Thanks to all of you! I wish I had found this site a long time ago! Maybe I would have gotten into reloading before the bullet grab went crazy!
     
  18. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    So went out this morning to my reloading station and started to look to see how to widen the case mouth. I guess it would be good to put the stinking die in the turret! Some how I completely missed putting that die in and had made rounds without it. I got it installed and adjusted and my rounds came out looking great and no lead shavings! Thanks again for all the input and I look forward to visiting this site as often as possible!
     
  19. zim223

    zim223 New Member

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    Are you resizing the bullet?
     
  20. ETORDIE

    ETORDIE New Member

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    I did not re-size and the belling is has resolved my problems with the reloads. Since my last post I have reloaded well over a 1000 rounds and fired probably half without issue.

    Thanks for all your help!

    Joey