Shooting Accuracy - What Am I Doing Wrong?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Jefe', Nov 2, 2008.

  1. Jefe'

    Jefe' New Member

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    I was able to finally get my new AR out to the range yesterday. I performed the Improved Battlesight Zero procedure at 50 yards and got my irons sighted in. Then I mounted my new Eotech and got that sighted in as well. During both processes, I was able to get down to 2" - 3" groups pretty well centered at my point of aim. All of this was done seated at the bench rest.

    Then I stood up and shot in the standing position, using the Eotech, still on the 50 yard range. My shots were consistently low and to the left of target. I would say that they were off point of aim by anywhere from 3" to 6", and just about all of them were between 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock.

    This is the first rifle I have ever owned, so I don't have much experience shooting rifles. I know that the problem must lie in the way that I am setting up to shoot. My rifle has a regular handguard, no vertical grip or anything.

    I'd appreciate any help or hints that y'all can give me to help me correct and improve my shooting. Pics of proper stance would be good too.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Dgunsmith

    Dgunsmith New Member

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    Change the stock front grips to a free float tube will enhance what your barrel will do.

    Sounds like the Eotech needs some more adjustment on the range.

    What were you using for ammunition would be the next question ?

    What is the rate of twist on the barrel ?

    How heavy is the stock trigger pull ?

    You have just begun a great adventure in AR's World !
     

  3. Ram Rod

    Ram Rod New Member

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    If everything is right on while you're shooting off the bench then changes when you shoot standing it could be any number of things. Ar yuo using a bipod? Your eye relief from your sight has also probably changed. Make sure your mount and harware are tight, and get proper sight picture with your optic. If you are able to use your open sights with the optic mounted, that would be a plus and tell you what you may be doing wrong.
     
  4. truevil1313

    truevil1313 New Member

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    To me it sounds more like a trigger squeese problem. Maybe too much finger on the trigger.
     
  5. fin24000

    fin24000 New Member

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    yeah I would go with trigger and breathing.... after that where you useing the sling? the sliong can help alot if used right!
     
  6. Jefe'

    Jefe' New Member

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    Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I'm a complete newb o rifles of any kind, so I have a few follow-ups and answers to clarify some of the questions posed above.

    What is meant by 'free floating' as opposed the the regular hand guard, which is what I assume that I have.

    For this shooting session, I was using Remington (I want to say Black Hills, but not sure if that's right). It comes in a blue box of 50 rounds.

    The barrel rate of twist is 1:9 and it's a 6" barrel.

    I don't know the pull weight on the trigger. It is a RRA National Match trigger, and I assume that it is set to factory spec.

    I was not usiing the sling. Could you please elaborate on the proper way to use the sling to help shooting accuracy, or is there a thread that you can reference? The sling that I have is a Turner Saddlery M-1907:

    http://www.turnersling.com/miva/mer...Code=TS&Product_Code=M1907&Category_Code=HRRS

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  7. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Your zero should be done at 25 yards and it should be a 3 round group in under an inch. At least 3 groups should be fired and the average of those 3 groups should be used to adjust your zero. The process should be repeated for every adjustment.

    All problems with shooting come down to the 3 basic fundamentals, breath, trigger and sight picture.

    Be sure your cheek weld is consistent as that's the biggest killer of accuracy for ARs.
     
  8. janikphoto

    janikphoto New Member

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    Our range won't let you take rifles to the pistol side, and that's the only place to find a stall with 25 yards or under. I agree that it might be the way you are holding the rifle. If you had good, consistent hits when sitting down, but bad, consistent hits while standing, your cheek weld may be in a different position for each. This would mean you are looking through the sights at a different angle and affect the actual aiming point.

    Next time you are at the range, use enough sand bags to raise the rifle to a decent position when sitting. Don't hunch down over it. Mimmic the position you'd be holding it while standing. I'm not a professional, so someone here might offer a tweak to my suggestions, but I feel like I'm basically on par here...
     
  9. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    Your zero does not have to be done at 25 yards, but that is common. I have used a 50 yard zero and a 100 yard zero. Next time I zero, I'll use a 36 yard zero.

    Due to inconsistencies in the ammunition manufacturing process, and the low quality of ammo that is used to military surplus, one would be better served shooting 5 to 10 rounds...

    AMEN!
     
  10. balloo93

    balloo93 New Member

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    As the others have mentioned, it is more than likely technique that is getting you bigger groups standing.

    If you are new to rifles it will be hard to get a steady stance.
    Do you have you trigger arm tucked down to your side?
    What grip you you have on the handguard?

    Try a few different postions. With the rifle pointed slightly up and down range, put your supporting hand into in th eopening between the rifle and the sling. Then wrap your arm around the sling and grab the guard. That should constrict around your arm and hwlp steady the arm holding the rifle.

    Find a cheekweld (you put your check on the stock and look through the sights). Make sure to get the same checkweld each time you do it.

    Breathe in and slowly exhale, pulling the trigger with 2/3 the breath out. This is something you can do at home on an empty chamber (dry firing). This also allows you to practice the cheekweld and gives you quality time with your rifle.

    Do this standing so you can practice the grip and steadiness too.

    I'm no pro, but these are things that I do to help me for range trips.
     
  11. DuckA

    DuckA New Member

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    I have to agree with those suggesting that your sight picture might be off when you're standing.
     
  12. Jefe'

    Jefe' New Member

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    Thanks for all of the great advice. I used the 50 yard range because I went by the (Santose) Improved Battlesight Zero that I found here:http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/improvedbattlesightzero.msnw. It made sense to me, so I went with it. I don't know if the local range will let me use my rifle on the 25 yard range or not.

    I understand what you guys are saying about the cheek weld and the sight picture, breathing and trigger squeeze, and I will work on those things my next time out.

    I still don't understand the concept of full floating barrel. I've Googled this and poked around a couple of sights, but I am unclear on the mechanics of how this helps accuracy. Can someone elaborate? Also, aren't there any handguards that allow the barrel to float that do not cost $150 - $250 or more?
     
  13. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    A floating barrel makes a very minute difference. There isn't a single M16 or M4 in the military inventory that has a floated barrel. They aren't necessary for anything except full match rifles.
     
  14. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    A free-floating barrel means that the only thing touching the barrel is the gas system. Any pressure put on your barrel changes the harmonics and can negatively effect your accuracy, unless it is always consistent (gas system). Since you cannot always put the same pressure when using your sling or a rest, free-float tubes were developed.

    1.) There are lots of M16s and M4s that have free float tubes nowadays. It is one of the upgrades available for the M4, and is issued on all M16A4s these days. In fact, I would have to say that the majority of the M4s on the market have free-floated rail systems these days. Definitely all of the new ones.

    2.) Kyle Lamb and Larry Vickers, former Delta operators, are suggesting that any rifle used to fight with seriously have a free-float tube installed. Lamb has been able to change his point of impact on a non-free-floated rifle up to 4" at 100 yards...
     
  15. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I think some may be trying to over think this issue. With that much error I look more at trigger control. Try some dry fire (safe to do on an AR) and see if the sights move when the trigger breaks (releases the hammer). Only put the pad of the trigger finger on the trigger. An AR has a very short reach to the trigger and it is very easy to put the first joint on the trigger. This will give the finger too much leverage and allow it to pull the gun down/left.

    Dry fire practice is an often overlooked aspect of training.
     
  16. Jefe'

    Jefe' New Member

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    I am definitely doing this. I'll work on just the pad of the finger, along with making sure that my cheek weld is in the same spot each time, giving me a consistent sight picture as several others have suggested.

    The floating barrel may indeed be a good idea down the road, but it really sounds like I need to focus on consitently employing proper mechanics before I get in to modifying the rifle.

    Thanks again everyone.