Shoot Until the Threat is no longer a Threat

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Threetango, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. Threetango

    Threetango Audentes Fortuna Iuvat Supporter

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  2. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    While I agree to keep shooting until he's no longer a threat, I can't tell if he was even hit. Could just be my eyes.
     

  3. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    Being the newbee that I am I asked the same question on this forum. Axxe55 replied with exactly what is in the post. "...until the threat is no longer a threat".
     
  4. Anna_Purna

    Anna_Purna New Member

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    Same reason for when I go target shooting in the outdoors, I eject the shotgun shell, or on a bolt action rifle I eject the spent round as fast as I can once I have fired, just to keep myself 'trained' in a situation like this, or with a pissed off animal. Shooting once, and then looking to see if you hit your target could get you killed in a moment just like this :eek:
     
  5. Threetango

    Threetango Audentes Fortuna Iuvat Supporter

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    Here's more.



    Published on Oct 4, 2013

    Oregon State Police Thursday released a dramatic video showing the gun battle that unfolded in August on Interstate 84 about 100 miles east of Portland, ending in the death of a Portland motorist.

    The freeway confrontation lasted only moments, according to the patrol car video from the Aug. 29 episode. The video, released to The Oregonian after a public records request, starts as Trooper Matt Zistel stops a Cadillac driven by John Van Allen, 34. Allen had three of his children with him that afternoon as he pulled over near Biggs Junction.

    The video shows Allen stepping out of his car and assuming a military pose. After Zistel repeatedly tells him to get back in his car, Allen pulls a pistol from his waistband, advancing on Zistel and firing. The video doesn't show Zistel.

    After shots are fired, the video shows Allen returning to his car and driving off. He was shot in the chest but the video shows no obvious injury.

    Zistel radios, "Shots fired" and then moments later, "I've been hit in the side. I'm okay."

    Responding officers found Zistel suffering a gunshot wound. They found Allen's car a half mile down the freeway, parked on the shoulder. Allen was dead, shot once in the chest.

    Zistel was treated for his injury at a hospital in The Dalles and released. He has been on administrative leave. Zistel, 26, has been with the agency five years. In a subsequent investigation, Sherman County District Attorney Wade McLeod concluded Zistel was justified in shooting Allen.

    Relatives said Allen was returning to his native South Carolina at the time of shooting. They said the aggressive action was out of character. He moved to Portland from Pittsburgh. He served in the U.S. Army Reserve as a construction engineer from 2009 until 2012.Fatal Shootout on Interstate 84 in Oregon
     
  6. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    thank you for saying that.

    i have heard people say how many does it take to make a BG no longer a threat? there is no known number. it depends on many things. too many to ever give a conclusive answer to. might be one round, or it might be ten rounds or more.

    i have also heard, what if the BG is wearing armor? well if center mass shots are not stopping him, shoot him elsewhere. not likely to happen, but it could happen, that a BG is wearing armor.
     
  7. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Home invaders are wearing body armor in some cases. They break into gun shops to get weapons, ammo and body armor. Then they go on a crime spree well armed, with protection from handgun fire.
     
  8. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    please provide some links to eduacate us on this being ongoing.
     
  9. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    I've never heard of that either...

    Gotta figure, if someone steals a bunch of stuff, they're going to sell it off before they go after more goodies... cough cough DRUG MONEY cough cough But I'm not a criminal so what the hell do I know...

    I have a hard time believing, (that since criminals are nothing but gutless COWARDS) they'd have the balls to stand and take live fire. I imagine even with body armor, that sh*t HAS to hurt!!:eek:

    But I guess that's why we practice headshots too...
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    even when wearing body armor, people can still end up with internal injuries from being shot. body armor only increases your odds of survival if shot. it doesn't make a person bulletproof.
     
  11. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    That's what I'm saying, busted ribs, collapsed lungs, bleeding organs...unpleasant...

    But try to convince a gun grabber of that...:mad: To them, it makes you the frickin' Terminator...:mad:
     
  12. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    exactly. depending on what a person was shot with and at what distance makes a lot of difference, but many people have suffered internal injuries and broken bones when shot wearing body armor.

    but they were not bleeding out and by wearing the armor, their survival odds were greatly increased.
     
  13. FullautoUSA

    FullautoUSA Welcoming Committee/ Resident Pellet Gunner Lifetime Supporter

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    Are you sure about this, there aren't many people breaking into gun shops- for obvious reasons. And I'm pretty sure that gun stores are heavily, heavily secured- similar to a bank.
     
  14. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    Meh...I can remember 4 instances here in NC in the past year where idjuts broke into gun shops...twice at the same store. At one they drive a van through the front door, (not much you can do about that...they got caught). The other, the kid came in through the ceiling from the rooftop air handler. He got away the first time but they got him the second...

    A lot of the stores are not free standing structures, but are part of strip malls so they have to go with the setup they are given which isn't really ideal as far as security goes...

    I haven't heard anything about the stolen goodies being used to steal more goodies, not saying it hasn't happened, just that I haven't heard of it...:cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    but even so, with most having alarm systems, it's not like the thieves have unlimited time to browse and shop around. pretty much a hit and run robbery. in fast and out fast if they want to get away.
     
  16. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    That's exactly how homie did it the second time...video showed him pull a duffle bag out, smash glass display cases, loot 'n scoot. He wasn't in the store more than 30 seconds. They got him in the parking lot next door, he had 20 handguns and a bunch of ammo...

    I was a downtown area so I guess that explains the impressive response time...

    Still a big headache for the owner though...
     
  17. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    amateur thieves generally do more damage than the pros do!:eek:
     
  18. Rentacop

    Rentacop New Member

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    http://ww2.gazette.net/gazette_archive/1997/199714/silverspring/news/a55992-1.html

    "Watkins' total bond includes $5 million for the five armed robberies and $2.5 million for six counts of theft in which Watkins and Edwards allegedly stole property from county police vehicles, including two handguns, a bulletproof vest and a police scanner radio. Watkins remains in custody at the county jail.
    Police say that same equipment was used by the suspects in committing eight armed robberies in the county since Jan. 25. The robbers, who victims said at times used British or Australian accents, would strike between 3 a.m. and 5:30 a.m., often awakening victims at gunpoint and demanding cash."
     
  19. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    I can't provide links on it, but I do know we have a statute about body armor during the commission of certain crimes. It adds another felony to the list. It seems to me if it wasn't at least a small problem they wouldn't have felt obligated to make the law.

     
  20. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    several states have that same law. body armor has been used in felony criminal acts before. my point is, i seriously doubt, the average home invader is going to go out with body armor on, when he does a home invasion.

    just in case they do, if shots center mass are not working to stop the threat, then start aiming elsewhere. head or pelvis.