Shoot once or twice?

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by JohnSilver, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. JohnSilver

    JohnSilver New Member

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    I have heard from some people that its best to shoot in pairs rather than shoot only one shot at a time if your attacked....
     
  2. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    Shoot until the threat stops. If it only takes one round, then only shoot one round. If you empty your magazine and have to reload, do that. There is no magic number.
     

  3. FALPhil

    FALPhil New Member

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    The doctrine of multiple shots on an attacker actually was popularized by the father of modern gunfighting, Col. Jeff Cooper. He exposited that when confronted with multiple attackers, it was inefficient to shot one and wait to see if the shot had the intended effect, so the rule of gunfighting thumb became, put two quick shots in the center of mass and move to the next target. Ultimately, the multi-shot doctrine evolved into the "Mozambique".
     
  4. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    FALPhil is exactly right. Two to center of mass. Repeat as necessary.
     
  5. KevinG

    KevinG New Member

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    Shoot until the attack has stopped as already said. Have a backup to firing COM such as the pelvis or head shot. For me the head shot is a backup to the pelivis which is easier to fake out by the attacker.
     
  6. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    once or twice

    I agree, shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. I like to start low and ride the recoil up. Pelvis, abdomen, chest, head.

    The pelvic shot is good for an attacker armed with a knife or club. When you break the pelvis, the body cannot stand and will fall. I would not trust a 9mm to break the pelvis. I only consider this with a "Major caliber". 40, 10, .357 or 45.
     
  7. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    I wouldn't trust any handgun cartridge to break the pelvis, let alone perforate the femoral artery.

    If I'm in fear of my life, I don't shoot to wound, I shoot to end the fight. The easiest way to end a fight is if the other guy can't move, either because I broke his CNS (upper spinal cord or brain shot), or his brain has no oxygen (heart or blood vessel).
     
  8. rachilders

    rachilders New Member

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    +1+

    Shoot what ever number rounds it takes to make the threat stop or to make it leave (same results for you... no more threat)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2007
  9. FL Gunner

    FL Gunner New Member

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    Bingo. Rifles have field days with pelvis shots, but there's simply not enough power in most handgun rounds. And keep in mind that most people survive gunshots by handguns. Most don't when shot by rifles. Keep shooting until the fight is over.


    -Brian
     
  10. KevinG

    KevinG New Member

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    Something else to consider when aiming for the pelvic region or there abouts is the bladder I hear is not pleasant to be hit especially when full.

    I agree that there is no sure method to drop someone with a pelvic shot but let's consider (and this happened several years ago in oregon) the bad guy has body armor. Under stress a headshot is difficult and even more so if they are returning fire on you.

    Good thoughts flowing here.
     
  11. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    The area of the pelvic girdle that is necessary to hit to deliver incapacitation is smaller than a human head. Add in the fact that the pelvic girdle is nearly impossible to break, unless from a straight-on shot (face to face with the attacker) I'll take my chances with a shot to the brainpan.
     
  12. Spartan

    Spartan New Member

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    head shot? lol

    head shots are pointless unless you are across town with a .308 and aiming at someone important. the head moves and is a smaller target, center of mass is more effective, i wouldnt waste the shot with a pistol, double tap to the torso will usually drop them or at least stagger them long enough for you to retreat to cover and return fire again.
     
  13. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    If they stagger, and you return fire, where do you shoot at? The torso again, that did no damage last time you shot him there?

    Head shots are hard, but that's why people practice...
     
  14. pioneer461

    pioneer461 New Member

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    I think JohnSilver was refering to the use of "double tap," in self defense. In my police training, we were drilled endlessly in that concept, because the idea of a "one shot stop," is a myth. Yeah, sure it can happen, but don't bet your life on it.
     
  15. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    One shot, center mass will at least phase an attacker, even one wearing body armor. This will free you up for a second or two to address the other attackers if they exist. After at least temporarily disabling all attackers, you can return to them for follow up shots as necessary. After the first shot, they will be moving much more slowly, and you've got a higher chance of placing a second shot in a more vital or less defended area. There are few animals, people included, in this world that won't just fold when hit with a bullet. Anyone who hunts or has been in combat, knows this to be true.

    The 'two in the chest and one in the head' drill is really only necessary when running quickly through a large group of people where you won't have time to place follow up shots. It takes a considerable amount of training to perfect and honestly, would be hard to explain to the DA, as it is done to purposely kill an individual, rather than incapacitate an attacker. You may be tried for murder in a self defense case and that needs to be in the back of your mind when training for self defense situations.