Serious self defense question

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by clip11, May 22, 2010.

  1. clip11

    clip11 New Member

    In Michigan, its a 2 to 5 year felony to carry a concealed pistol w/o a license. However, you can open carry a pistol w/o a cpl. Lets say someone has a pistol in public and is attacked. They shoot the person in self defense. The police come and find the defender doesnt have a cpl, and they charge him with carrying a concealed pistol. How will the law be able to prove that you were concealed carrying instead of open carrying? Keep in mind, you dont need a license to open carry, but concealed carry.

    So if the cops come after the fact and just see you with the gun, but they didnt see in which condition you originally had it (open or concealed) can they still charge you with carrying a concealed weapon?
  2. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

    I think that if you are open carrying and some dumba$$ attacks you, even with your firearm in plain sight, then the sh!tbag deserved to be dead.

    That is a good question, depending on the type of holster you were using at the time, and the type of clothing, it's possible that it could be proven easily that the firearm could not have possibly been concealed, lots of variables here, a lawyer in your area would be the best person to ask.

  3. clip11

    clip11 New Member

    I know of a case where someone shot another in self defense and was given 2 years in prison, but he was a felon in possesion. There was a fight, the guy took out his gun and fired, he defended himself by taking out his gun and shooting back and ended up injuring the guy.

    But in the above scenario im talking about a person legally allowed to own a firearm.
  4. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

    Supposedly, we are innocent until proven guilty. Should something like that happen, don't talk until you have a lawyer present (and talk only to him/her). Do not run away (flight = guilt). Don't move anything (disturbing a possible crime scene). Do become well informed of your state's statutes on firearms.
  5. spittinfire

    spittinfire Active Member Supporter

    I think you need to ask a lawyer......just sayin.
  6. dnthmn2004

    dnthmn2004 New Member

    What he said ^

    We aren't lawyers (as far as I know), just firearm enthusiasts. Its your responsibility to research and know your state/county specific laws if your going to carry a firearm. As for a source, I recommend your library or your state's website instead of some random guy's opinion. In doing so, your probably going to learn some other laws you should know, before you are being charged with them in court.
  7. clip11

    clip11 New Member

    Im a security guard for a church in a not so good part of Detroit, Im working on getting a cpl, but I need to come by an extra $200 (105 for the state and 100 for the class). I've been thinking of open carrying in the meantime. I know some people may say open carry might draw trouble on the other hand, some store security guards open carry and I never heard of someone shooting them (or trying to) and taking their weapon to rob the store.

    But I dont want to be in a situation where if I have to act in self defense, I risk going to prison and having a felony record for

    1. Defending myself
    2. Not having the money to pay the state to exercise a right (or privilege the way they act) given to me by the 2A.
  8. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

    Looks like a no-brainer to me.

    Get the license.

    Can't do that?

    Open carry.

    * kids *
  9. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

    I would say get some self defense training, but if you can't get up $205 for the CPL and Training, you'll be hard pressed to pay a good martial arts instructor.

    Your best bet is to wait, get the training and CPL before you carry. I know open carry is legal, but.....

    First Crackhead:

    "Hey, there's this dude that open carries to and from that church over there and I think we could jump him one night and get enough for the gun to get some more sh!t!"

    Second Crackhead:

    "OK, man. I'm in, and maybe he'll have a little cash on him too! I've got this crow bar!"
  10. clip11

    clip11 New Member

    I see what you're getting at, but its a pretty open area so unless I was completely zoned out for them to sneak upon me with a crow bar and I not see it. And most times when Im standing outside, my back is to the door of the building.
  11. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    Don't conceal without the permit. Get the permit. I paid $65 for the class. $100 for the application. Worth every penny to me. In Colorado we can open carry. But hardly anybody does. I carry concealed at church. I thought there were only 3 of us. The church started a security ministry. They asked us to privately tell the head of the security ministry if we were willing to help out if we had a permit. They said that if we were willing to put our names and phone numbers on a list we would share the list with the other ccw people and no one else. This way we know who each other are. The pastor is very PRO Gun. Especially with all the church shootings that have happened. I can't believe it. It looks like more than 10% of my church is armed! We are talking about organizing a competition at the range now.
  12. TheGunLady

    TheGunLady New Member

    If you shoot someone, no matter the circumstances, YOU WILL BE ARRESTED - IN ANY STATE - PERMIT NOTWITHSTANDING.

    ALL shooting cases are arrested. Everywhere.

    If any reader has a concealed permit and this wasn't addressed in your class, please speak with your instructor so that this question/scenario is clear for future attendees. Concealed permit classes, contrary to popular expectation, are largely legal and ethics training - not intro to firearms courses. This issue should be clear in any class.

    Concealed, open, permit or not - ALL shooting cases are arrested and go to court. Expect that if you ever find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to shoot someone. You will be handcuffed-fingerprinted-mugshot-etc. You will spend some amount of time in jail, and you will have to go to court.

    A concealed permit is not a "get out of jail free" card in any state's scenario if a shooting incident occurs.

    The outcome is the court's decision. Permit or not, if you're acting within your rights then you'll likely be OK. Unfortunately, even many aggressors are released to walk the streets again. :(
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  13. G36Girl

    G36Girl New Member

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  14. Harland

    Harland New Member

    agreed. don't think a person is going to have on a heavy shirt and a pocket holster is going to be open carrying.