Self defense from hostile neighbor

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Upstatetiger, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. Upstatetiger

    Upstatetiger New Member

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    Hi, I have been lurking around this forum for the past year or so and only have posted a handful of times. I have a question about personal safety. I have a female friend who lives in Charleston, S.C. She goes to a local college down there and she lives in a apartment. For those of you who have never been to Charleston, there is a ghetto right outside of the city where a lot of drug addicts live. With her being a college student she lives right outside of this ghetto and has a drug addict that is a neighbor. He gets high and harasses her. He beats on their door and talks through the mail slot in the door calling them female body parts (a word that starts with a "c") and tells them they he is going to slit their throats. This all happens for no apparent reason. She has called the police on him several times and by time they get there he has gone and passed out from whatever drug he is on. She has pepper spray and I told her I wouldn't use that b/c it would probally wouldnt do anything but just piss him off even more, especially if he is high. I am going down there to visit her over Christmas break and I always carry my S&W .38 spl J-Frame with me when I travel. I do not have a CWP but I plan on getting one. My question is if he somehow enters the apt while I am there and I feel that my life is in danger could I shoot to kill? I never want to kill anyone but if its either my friends and my life or his it's going to be the drug addict that gets shot. Would it be wise to just shoot to disable him and wait for the poice? I have always heard from my poilce friends that you should shoot to kill because a dead man can't talk and can't sue you. Final question is since it is not my property would that be considered defending myself and my property? Sorry this is so long but I figured it would be easier to give an answer if ya'll knew all of the story.
     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    If a person had to shoot an intruder, they shoot to stop the threat, not to kill.
     

  3. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    What CA didn't mention is that as long as they are talking and moving, they're a threat!
     
  4. Upstatetiger

    Upstatetiger New Member

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    Ok I got that. Don't misunderstand me. I never want to kill anyone. I'm just worried about her situation and while I'm down there I feel I need to be prepared to defend ourselves if the situation arises. God forbid.
     
  5. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    Check your local laws, it can usually be done online! Don't make yourself a victim of the legal system!!
     
  6. mpd8488

    mpd8488 New Member

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    Here's how it generally works (I'm not a lawyer though, so this is just my opinion. Also be sure to check any specific laws in your state):

    If you (as a reasonable person) feel that your life or the life of another is in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death, you have the right to use deadly force to stop the threat. Deadly force in this case means using your handgun and shooting for center mass until he is no longer a threat. This may mean that he is dead or it may mean that he is lying incapacitated on the floor. If you shoot to maim or wound, then that implies that he was not an imminent threat that justified the use of lethal force.

    Using a gun is always using lethal force. Trying to use it any other way is probably illegal. Either you have the justification or you don't.
     
  7. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    It looks like you've gotten some good advice on how to handle it if he (neighbor) enters the apartment screaming for blood & such, but i find myself wondering if your friend has considered some surveillance of her hall and or door area as evidence to allow the local LEO's to find this guy a more interesting place to stay? I ordered an inexpensive, video-only camera that is about the size of a celphone & records on SD memory cards for about $50; i used it for car-related goofiness. My sister used it to watch her chicken pen for a mistery predator. I would think such a device, perhaps in concert with some video/audio recordings from your friend's celphone would provide the cause needed for the local LEO's to enter duder's apartment for a chat; once inside, they will probably notice some things (doesn't sound like a neatfreak type) that will allow them to help dude get over his problem with your friend and probably some other neighbors.

    I recently ordered a small, wireless, nanny-cam for about $50; it is small enough to be easily concealed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  8. Bigguns911

    Bigguns911 New Member

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    All around good advice, I like Orangello's idea a lot. The more evidence you have that a person is doing the alleged crime the better off you and your friend would be. not only in prosecution of this a$$hole but in the case that you do use force on him.

    One thing I will point out (same as above I am not an attorney) is expect to be arrested, your gun taken as evidence and you and your friends to be questioned for some time. That is just how it goes, it is not like in the movies were you get a high five from the cops and then go back to you move. Also, it sounds like this a$$ has made statements of cutting your friend. This is good stuff but you need to keep in mind, shooting an unarmed person can be problematic.

    Like others have said, look up the laws, know your rights and know what you can and can not do to protect your self and others. All states are differing in some ways with this. Also make sure you are legally carrying the gun in question. Last thing you want is to be unlawful and get hung up on that. Be safe.

    One more thing, don't talk a lot of shi! about shooting this butt head. The cops will do an investigation and the more you have said about "killing him" and more it will sound like you went to the friends to take this sucker out.
     
  9. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Not being a lawyer I may be way off base here but asking that question on an open forum such as this may put you in jeopardy by some overzealous prosecutor. Arguing the merits of traveling to another state to possibly have to shoot a friend's neighbor just may fall within a premeditation criteria. Just my opinion.
     
  10. mpd8488

    mpd8488 New Member

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    If it comes to it you should also shut up when the police get there. Especially if you're innocent, making a statement without a lawyer present could be the end of you. You have the right to remain silent even before they read you your Miranda rights (which they don't have to do until they arrest you and are interviewing you). USE IT!
     
  11. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    1. Miranda rights are not only required when arrested, but when questioned in a "focus of suspicion".

    2. There is no such thing as "shooting to wound". Not with a handgun in a close quarters combat situation- which is what you had BETTER be in if you claim self defense. You are shooting to stop the threat to your life. Not threat to your lawn, your dog, your beauty sleep, etc.

    3. Shooting to stop the threat means shooting for the biggest piece of him- center body mass. Halfway between belly button and adam's apple.

    4, If you shoot anybody, anywhere, for any reason, expect to be detained or arrested.

    5. There are other means of control that should be attempted first. Making a threat of bodily harm is known as assualt. Get the PD involved. Go beyond the officer responding if you need to.
     
  12. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Indeed, + Infinity, word, the snizzle........What he said. :cool:

    Jack
     
  13. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Ok, here's what I think.

    1. You stated that you have made a handful of posts, but your post toatal reads 2.

    2. Free legal advice is worth what it cost you.

    3. Don't believe in this day and age of camera phones with recorders that your "friend" can't get proof of threats of physical harm....

    4. BS
     
  14. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    Yea, kinda like saying "I'm going to take a coat to the movies in case it might be cold out when we leave for home."

    Here's the drill JPyle: The guy hammers on the door and yells he is going to slit the throats of the dwellings occupants. He breaks the door in and enters the apartment. He is crazed looking and makes threatening jestures and advances toward the occupants in a threatening manner even though Upstatetiger warns that he has a weapon. This all happens in a matter of seconds. To protect himself and his friend, he fires.

    Only in New York City is this guy in trouble!
     
  15. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    This is our standard reply to legal questions:

    The FTF flunked our Bar Exam.

    Only a fool would take legal advice from us.

    Taking legal advice from a public forum is only exceeded in stupidity by the people that offer that advice!
     
  16. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. :D
     
  17. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    I slept in the lobby!! :D
     
  18. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Quoted for truth!!
     
  19. kusterleXD

    kusterleXD New Member

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    I am not a lawyer nor am I in in any kind of position to offer legal council. What I can offer is good ol' common sense. Something to consider is that South Carolina firearms (perticularly handgun) laws are drastically different from the rest of the southern states. That is the reason why most concealed carry permits to not reciprocate to South Carolina. I would hate to see a law abiding citizen be arrested and lose their firearm because of their own lack of knowledge of state and local laws. Additionally, you would need to have many disinterested witnesses verifying your story should anything happen and if it is in an apartment building in a not so good section of town, good luck with that. As mentioned before, an over-zealous DA will make a very convincing argument as to whether or not you planned on a confrontation with intent to kill. If you feel that strongly for her safety, try finding a better location for her to reside and/or let her be the one to confront the bad guy with a firearm. If she isn't trained in their use, take her to the range and let her learn. Additionally, if you do take it upon yourself or she takes it upon herself to gather evidence against the drug addict, make sure it is of enough quality that you can clearly identify the person making the threats. The polilce are over worked as it is and they aren't going to put much effort into catching a small fish. My 2 cents worth then is this: try finding alternate suitable living arrangements and if that isn't an option, make sure she gets proper training in the use of firearms so she can defend herself should this knucklehead ever back up his words with action.
     
  20. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    common sense says start recording with a video camera what is happening or tape recorder and call 911. you dont need a gun to solve every problem. guns are the last ditch things to save a life. using one will often solve one problem and start several more. retain a lawyer and write down everything that occurs.

    getting actual legal advice from a real lawyer is a better thing to do then going gun shopping and reading replies from a gun forum. video/audio evidence and the old saying of "if you did not write it down it did not happen" is in play.

    go get real legal advice.