Security Guard is Maced, Shoots and Kills Attacker

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by alsaqr, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    JMO but anyone going to a rally or protest of any kind, political or not, unarmed , is asking to be a victim.
    The deceased man this thread is about was for all practical purposes unarmed.
    Didnt work so well for him.
     
  2. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Of course, the decedent in question was also a chest-poker and in-your-face person, one of the mutual combatants. He then lashed out with battery; though at which point in the timeline it's hard to tell. That part didn't work out well for him. The trash-talk, the chest-poking, the in-your-face stance/taunts. Along with the other idiot, he rolled those dice and came up 'snake eyes'.

    Such "trash talk" doesn't get tolerated much these days. Deliberately seeking it and dishing it out ... well, it's highly likely to end badly. In such a charged, ugly climate, all too possible to get violent, even deadly.

    In the case of spray, it just goes to show how far that'll take someone if faced with a truly violent type.


    If nothing else, all of that's a good lesson for others.

    The miscreants who want to keep pushing things? This is what it's coming to. Better not do it. Else they might find themselves facing someone who simply won't tolerate being walked all over and threatened.

    The otherwise upstanding types who think "trash" talking and in-your-face is a good way to go? It isn't. Might well end up right ... dead right, put down for their effrontery, trash-talk, assault, battery.
     
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  3. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

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    Not true. His pistol was in a shoulder holster. The police collected it st the scene.
     
  4. schnuffleupagus

    schnuffleupagus Well-Known Member

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    By the time the spray started the pistol had already discharged and was ejectung the spent casing. The killer is in trouble. A good lawyer would negotiate for Voluntary Manslaughter~3 years.
     
  5. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks I knew there were two guns but thought both were the shooters.
     
  6. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Not true.
    There is audio recording of the spray starting before the gun discharged.

    The deceased moved from the original person he was arguing with, to the cameraman upset about the camera. There is audio of him threatening the cameraman as the video is disturbed.
    He struck the bodyguard, began to spray him and was shot.
    The cameraman is charged , of course.
    How it will turn out will be heavily influenced by the politics of the prosecutor and possibly jury if it gets that far.
    I do not agree with the beliefs of the body guard, but the deceased was the aggressor, physically assaulted the body guard then sprayed him and was shot.

    Appears at least for now to be SD.
     
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  7. CMAB2SA

    CMAB2SA Active Member

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    Bingo.

    I will add you might be just dealing with a person that has no respect for life, theirs and anybody else's.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 11:02 AM
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  8. CMAB2SA

    CMAB2SA Active Member

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    Bingo.

    The only got you I can see is IF the shooter had a duty to retreat.

    I agree 100% about the politics of this event. It should be determined by the facts as known and Colorado laws.

    I view the event as shown not caring about the politics of either induvidual.

    Of course anybody that carriers accepts potential outcomes be it in your favor or not.


    Looks like the shooter did have a duty to retreat outside of a dwelling.

    Is Colorado a Stand Your Ground State?

    While Colorado doesn’t have a “stand your ground” law, it is a Castle Doctrine state. It grants its citizens the “right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.” A person is justified in using physical force on another person in order to defend himself, herself or a third person. He or she may use a degree of force reasonably believed to be necessary to stop the attack of another person. There is no duty to retreat, and the law applies at a person’s residence or in another dwelling, which is referred to as a “make my day” statute. There is a duty to retreat outside a person’s residence. You may not legally use deadly force in Colorado in order to protect any other type of property.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 11:09 AM
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  9. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I couldn't get any handle on what was actually occurring in the close-up video that went sideways (jostling). Who was jostling whom; who was threatening whom; who ratcheted up to battery and the manifest threat of more to come beyond that; etc.

    If it turns out there's iron-clad proof (better still, from multiple angles of video and from multiple nearby witnesses) that the step up to battery and hands-on was committed by the "biker" (looking) guy, it might be possible to convince a jury that self-defense or defense-of-a-third-party was what the shooting was about. If that meets the standards in the CO state statutes, and if it can be clearly shown that the manifest threat of more to come was reasonable, then it might be the guy can get acquitted. Otherwise, he's in a real jam.

    I suspect that with so many people around, and with so many nearby witnesses who certainly heard much of (if not all) of the verbals between the players, there will end up being more concrete proofs coming into the equation.

    Best the "shooter" can hope for, I think, based on what's been seen so far: mutual combatants flinging verbals back and forth, with the big chest-poker guy (decedent) and the other chest-poker guy going at it with taunts; with an instance of battery upon the "shooter" guy by the decedent; with an apparent jostling of the camera guy with possible threats of harm to come; followed by the shooting and spraying ... and that the decedent can be shown to be the batterer who took it (and attendant threats of imminent violence) far beyond the word-slinging occurring to that point, such that it'll be seen as reasonable to halt it before such violent felony occurred by the decedent. Failing that "reasonableness" standard being met in the eyes of the DA or jury ...

    I hope he's got a good attorney. And I hope they've gone into "high gear" with tracking down all witnesses and recordings. He's going to need it.
     
  10. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    The guy who shot him wasnt the guy hes arguing with in all those videos.

    Try watching [I'll link it if I can find it again], the video of the decedent moving to his right , disengaging with the guy he was arguing with and moving toward the camera man and bodyguard. The next video is the one where the camera is jostled and a clear audio of the decedent threatening to"beat the blank out of you " to the camera man hes jostling.
    The sound of the mace being sprayed before the gun shot is plain as are the stills of the decedent striking the body guard with mace in hand , body guard empty handed.

    I dont like the world view of the body guard, the camera man or the station.

    That said, barring something else coming out I'd have to vote to acquit if I were in that jury. The shooter was assaulted physically, then maced, no legitimate reason for either. One would have to assume that a person coming up to you, hitting , you , then macing you , intends to disable your ability to defend yourself and poses at minimum a threat of serious bodily harm.
     
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  11. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Same here.

    IMO: The hat maker came to the "demonstration" with his bear spray and a chip on his shoulder. He sprayed the wrong person and became worm food.
     
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  12. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Haven't seen those, apparently.

    The one vid I saw of the close-quarters jostling wasn't clear who was doing the jostling, nor was there any clear audio that I heard.

    Confusing, at this point.

    Hopefully, some sensible sequence of video and witness commentary will be put forward (a la the mob assaults upon Rittenhouse [and his response] in Kenosha, which became vastly clearer once one could see what was going on and have a good sense of his being cornered and having no options).
     
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  13. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    I havent had any luck finding those videos again so far. I'll keep looking.
     
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  14. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Pretty good assessment of the disparities among domestic PSCs. State laws vary greatly but most are very specific and restrictive with regard to armed personnel. The cost of liability insurance also factors in to a company's strict limitations on what employees can and cannot do.

    Government OCONUS contracts generally have higher vetting requirements for applicants and are subject to Department of State or DOD oversight and management.

    The guy who shot the pepper-sprayer might be qualified to work for a Mexican drug cartel...where shooting people down in the street is routine.
     
  15. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Or, might have been subject to some credible threats of a severe beat-down and spraying, at which point he reasonably thought to halt that from happening. (Not that I'm leaning either way, right now, given how little we know about some vital aspects and timing.)

    I do hope there's corroborating evidence of some of the claims, out there. At this point, we simply don't know some crucial details.
     
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