Security Guard is Maced, Shoots and Kills Attacker

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by alsaqr, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,290
    5,370
    113
    woodlander likes this.
  2. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

    6,362
    3,640
    113
    It will come down to, is shooting and killing someone a proportional response to being sprayed with mace. He can not really argue he feared for his life, he could in big trouble. The (play stupid games, win stupid prizes,) could apply to the security guard in the long run.
     
    Chainfire and winds-of-change like this.

  3. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,290
    5,370
    113
    Really! People have died from being pepper sprayed.

    The attacker showed up at a protest with a can of mace or pepper spray, most likely with the intention of spraying someone. Let this be a warning to people who would attack others at rallys, "demonstrations" or whatever.
     
    Pasquanel, Ghost1958 and Caveman Jim like this.
  4. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    13,732
    8,200
    113
    alsaqr, you certainly are an expert mind reader. You know exactly why people do things. Maybe we should skip trials and have you decide.
     
    bluez and Mister Dave like this.
  5. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

    8,563
    7,363
    113
  6. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

    8,563
    7,363
    113
  7. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

    8,563
    7,363
    113
  8. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

    1,865
    2,686
    113
    As always, it should depend on the totality of circumstances with what led up to the situation. Doesn't look good, at this point, but then I haven't seen any video showing several seconds prior to those two coming in contact, nor seen any indication of how tense or nasty (or relaxed?) the immediate surroundings were.

    Can't see if the guy was carrying openly and visibly. Doesn't appear to be wearing "Security Detail" type clothing that indicates he's in any "official" security capacity.

    In a simple situation where someone walks up to a person on a street corner, in town, and dishes up a full dose of spray to the face, where that person is clearly and visibly carrying an item of significant value (ie, a Rolex watch, carrying an expensive briefcase, openly carrying a firearm, whatever), it's a fair bet that a targeted person is going to be imminently victimized once incapacitated (or temporarily blinded) by the attack. (Fact is, people get battered and disabled during such muggings, where the prelude is a spray to the face, a smack with a bat, or whatever. Someone at a Chicago bus stop was mugged in this way just a few months back, though I can't seem to find the news article.)

    But these sorts of gatherings are different. There's a different vibe, level of tension, depending. It's assumed everyone's got equal right to be present. And it's rather unlikely a person's going to be stripped of belongings and mugged right there, in front of many people. Unless there's clear tension and manifest threats going on nearby, I'd think that employment of lethal force to halt such an attack wouldn't be seen in a good light.

    If the guy had been threatening, and tensions were high all around? I can see use of force, even lethal force (depending).

    If the guy just walked up solo, and nearby tensions weren't anything special? I think use of deadly force would be taken very badly.

    One of the many reasons I'd never want to be at "protests" like this solo, without a number of well-known and close compatriots with me ... if for no other reason than to witness exactly what's occurring with each of us so that the truth of what occurs has a better chance of being known and understood. Going solo, in these things, is a recipe for, well, what occurred.
     
    JTJ, 7point62 and Ghost1958 like this.
  9. Notrighty

    Notrighty Well-Known Member

    193
    197
    63
    I’m sure if the victim was a Trump supporter it will be ruled justifiable homicide.
     
  10. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

    863
    972
    93
    Open Carry is illegal in Denver.

    There are exceptions for licensed, armed, uniformed security guards but I'm not sure how it would apply to what is essentially a bodyguard.

    JMO but I wouldn't open carry in that situation and I wouldn't confront a mob of protesters for security guard pay.
     
  11. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,870
    7,976
    113
  12. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

    1,865
    2,686
    113
    So, @ellis36 , what is ^that ... assault and battery by the guy on the left, followed by a spraying and shooting by the parties?

    Can't tell the sequence, IOW who the instigating aggressor was.

    Can't tell who the guy in the back/right of the photos is, or whether there's other clear ugliness or "tensions" occurring around them (which easily could make an A&B by an apparently larger/stronger person seem to justify force).
     
  13. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

    4,607
    5,084
    113
    Being maced by an attacker is a effort to disable the victim. It can most certainly be considered a danger to life or of serious bodily harm as the victim must assume the attack will continue once he is disabled.

    Cant tell the sequence of events that led to the spraying of mace but if the sprayer was the aggressor the shooting is SD.
     
    G66enigma and formerCav like this.
  14. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

    863
    972
    93
    In his book The Law of Self Defense Andrew Branca says getting arrested after a self-defense shooting isn't the big deal, getting convicted is.

    Normally the police have zero discretion. If there's been a shooting the shooter gets arrested.

    I've never heard of a self defense shooting in Colorado in which shooter wasn't initially arrested.

    I can only think of three exceptions in Colorado and all three involved an intruder being shot by a homeowner in the house.
     
  15. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    2,406
    509
    113
    Use of deadly force by licensed security contractors is usually no different from civilian applications. Generally, a threat of death or great bodily harm to you or other innocent persons is the criteria.

    If this security guard is licensed--which I assume he is--and authorized to carry a firearm, his first duty when confronted by a non-lethal threat is to protect his principle, in this case the camera person. But by protect I mean immediately escort his principle away from the source of potential harm and toward a safe area. In other words, attempt to disengage.

    By remaining in the threat-area you expose yourself and your principle to possible injury.

    There are strict laws pertaining to armed security personnel, what they can and cannot do, up to and including the caliber of their authorized service weapon.

    Most of you will not agree with me, but the TTP in personal protection has never, in my experience, authorized deadly force against non-lethal threats. And while it's certainly possible to argue that in a few rare instances exposure to mace has caused death, mace as a lethal threat will never fly in court.
     
    kbd512 and Shopfox like this.
  16. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

    5,288
    1,958
    113
    Bringing pepper spray to a gun fight is never a bright idea. The guy got what he deserved, IMO.
     
  17. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

    5,288
    1,958
    113
    Bringing pepper spray to a gun fight is never a bright idea. The guy got what he deserved, IMO.
     
  18. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

    4,607
    5,084
    113
    The use of mace wont.
    The use of mace by an aggressor to disable a victim will most certainly fly in court as reasonable grounds to fear death or serious bodily harm .
    The same as any other method used to attempt to disable a victim by an aggressor.

    Just judging by those photos it looks like the biker struck the BG then dropped back a step and sprayed him.
    But those are stills so it's hard to tell.
     
  19. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,870
    7,976
    113

    This is strictly a guess on my part
    but I think the guy in the back on the right was the Reporter/Photographer being guarded. He has a device in his hand and could have equipment on his back. From the little I gleaned from the report it seemed the BLM guy has just slapped the guard in the first picture, knocking his cap askew, while the guard was pointing to something in the BLM guys right jacket pocket. (Could that be the second gun found at the scene and the guard was pointing it out? IDK) The BLM guy has his can of mace in his right hand with his finger on the button.

    In the second picture the shooters glasses are still dislodged from the slap or punch and his cap is off his head so he likely took the first blow and it all escalated pretty fast after that..
    JMO!

    ellis
     
  20. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

    4,607
    5,084
    113
    Just from the photos I dont think the mace guy was BLM, I cant read his entire shirt but it doesnt seem to be a supportive shirt for BLM.

    Most bikers hate BLM . And the sprayer is by all appearance a biker.
     
    ellis36 likes this.