Second Amendment to Blame?

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by sculker, Apr 22, 2008.

  1. sculker

    sculker New Member


    U.S. Guns Arming Mexican Drug Gangs; Second Amendment to Blame?
    Officials: More Than 90 Percent of Weapons Used by Mexico's Drug Gangs Come From the U.S.
    April 22, 2008—

    U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials.

    "It's a war going on in Mexico, and these types of firearms are the weapons of war for them," said Bill Newell, the special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division of the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which has primary law enforcement jurisdiction for investigating gun trafficking to Mexico.

    "It's virtually impossible to buy a firearm in Mexico as a private citizen, so this country is where they come," said Newell.

    But U.S. efforts to stop the smuggling of tens of thousands of guns to Mexico, including high-powered assault weapons, have been hampered by lenient American gun laws and the Bush administration's failure to give priority to anti-gun smuggling efforts, officials tell ABC News for a report Tuesday on ABC News' "World News With Charles Gibson."

    Watch the full report on "World News With Charles Gibson" at 6:30 p.m. ET.

    President Bush said today at a press conference that Mexican President Felipe Calderon again raised the issue of guns at their meeting in New Orleans.

    Mexico's strict gun laws are being subverted by the easy availability of weapons in the U.S., the Mexican attorney general, Eduardo Medina-Mora Icaza, told ABC News. "The Second Amendment," said the attorney general, "is certainly not designed to arm and give fire power to organized crime abroad."

    More than 3,400 people have been killed by the drug cartels in the last 15 months, 2,000 of them law enforcement officials, according to the Mexican attorney general.

    U.S. and Mexican officials say they have traced most of the thousands of high-powered weapons seized from the drug cartels to gun dealers in Texas, California and Arizona.

    Assault weapons made in China and Eastern Europe, resembling the AK-47, have become widely and cheaply available in the U.S. since Congress and the Bush administration refused to extend a ban on such weapons in 2004.

    Under federal gun laws, gun dealers are not required to report multiple purchases of such weapons because they are classified as rifles.

    "If you were to go into a gun store and buy 20 of these, there is no requirement by the gun dealer to fill out a multiple sales form," said the ATF's Newell.

    The drug cartels' weapons of choice include variants of the AK-47, .50-caliber sniper rifles and a Belgian-made pistol called the "cop killer" or "mata policia" because of its ability to pierce a bulletproof vest.

    "It's in high demand by your violent drug cartels, their assassins in Mexico," said Newell of the ATF. The gun can fire a high-powered round used in a rifle.

    An ABC News investigation found the "mata policia" and a wide range of assault weapons prominently displayed at gun stores along the border in Texas, the state providing the most weapons to the drug cartels, according to the ATF.

    Under Texas and federal law, there is no waiting period for the purchase of such weapons and no restriction on how many can be bought at a time.

    U.S. officials say there is little they can do to go after licensed gun dealers because large purchases, dozens or hundreds at a time, are legal for U.S. citizens and legal immigrants with an INS green card unless a gun dealer suspects the purchase is being made for someone else.

    ATF agents say legitimate gun dealers will often report suspicious activities, but that a small but significant number looks the other way.

    "I have personally worked cases where gun dealers have willfully allowed hundreds of guns to leave their gun store knowing that they were going into the wrong hands," said Newell.

    While the Bush administration has asked for an additional $100 million to combat drug violence on the border, only $948,000, less than one percent, has been allocated to the ATF under the White House proposal.

    "We need a lot more resources," said the ATF's Newell.

    "It sure shows a lack of concern on our part for this piece of the problem," said Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., who has introduced legislation to give the ATF an additional $15 million to improve border efforts.

    Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures
  2. spittinfire

    spittinfire Active Member Supporter

    I started to comment on this but I'm just too angry! I'm going to try to get some sleep and I might post something after I calm down a bit.

  3. hillbilly68

    hillbilly68 New Member

    This is guaranteed to be wrought with bad data. All I can intelligently say is "what a crock".
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    Is this true? In reference to "cheap" knock-offs of the Ak-47

    "Under federal gun laws, gun dealers are not required to report multiple purchases of such weapons because they are classified as rifles.

    "If you were to go into a gun store and buy 20 of these, there is no requirement by the gun dealer to fill out a multiple sales form," said the ATF's Newell."

    I can go in and buy 20 AK variants and it's not reportable as a multiple sale, just a standard rifle purchase?? I find that very hard to believe.

    Well, no doubt this report is 1) Slanted to the Left and 2) Going to be a hot bed issue as the power shifts to the Left come November... :(
  5. bkt

    bkt New Member

    Is this factually correct? Each time I've filled out the form, there has been a line for a single serial number for the rifle I've bought. It may be that you can attach another sheet with more lines for serial numbers.

    But this isn't unreasonable at all. There are no limits to the number of firearms you may own, and once you're cleared by the BATFE, that's it.

    I trust they're referring to the eeeeeevil Five-seveN. What a crock.

    Yup: a 5.7x28. Yowza. (Why didn't they mention that any rifle round larger than a .22 will punch through body armor?)

    It's funny how they make it sound so outrageous. Who's more clueless, do you suppose, the brain-donor who wrote this tripe or the majority of the people who read it?

    Actually, what's needed is for you and your jack-booted thug friends to disband and go the hell home and stop creating problems for Americans.

    If we had any semblance of control over our borders, most of the problems created by the drug peddlers and the illegals would go away.

    What we need, Mr. Newell, is for our friggin' government to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and stop trying to figure out ways to circumvent it.
  6. ScottG

    ScottG Active Member

    So what they're saying is our freedom causes criminal activity? Did these guns get acquired legally? I find it hard to believe that criminals from Mexico just waltz across the border to the nearest US gunshop and stock up on evil assault weapons. I wouldn't be surprised if the weapons aren't coming from government shipments to the Mexican government then being stolen or used by rogue elements in the police or military.
  7. Zappa

    Zappa New Member

    It is my understanding that a seperate Federal 4473 form must be filled out for EACH gun purchased from an FFL. This applies to both handguns and long arms.
    In the case of multiple HANDGUN purchases (2 or more at a time) a seperate reporting form must be sent to the BATFE by the FFL. This form is NOT required for multiple long arm purchases.
    Many years ago a friend of mine bought a fancy matched set of Colts in a presentation case, and the FFL told him that he was required by law to notify the ATF that this was a multiple handgun purchase. This was back before the days of NICS, so this has been a requirement for a long time now.