SCOTUS Rules On Straw Purchases

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by alsaqr, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The US Supreme Court has ruled on a case involving the "straw purchase" of a firearm. This is a win for the anti-gunners. :mad:

    http://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court-rules-straw-purchaser-law-140713053--finance.html
     
  2. rn-cindy

    rn-cindy Active Member

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    Can Holder still ship guns to the drug cartels in Mexico...? Or is that Illegal now..?
     

  3. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    It was a Straw purchase and the ruling is correct. He was paid before he purchased the gun.

    The only reason this made it to the Supreme Court is that the "uncle" was not a prohibited person and the Courts needed to clarify the "reason" or "Intent" for the restrictions on a Straw Purchase.

    They have spoken and IMO they are correct. A straw purchase is a Straw purchase whether the recipient of the firearm is a prohibited person or not.

    If you are not the actual buyer then you are not the actual buyer, regardless who the firearms goes to.


    BTW, the reason this all came to light is because Abramski was a suspected Bank Robber and during the execution of a search warrant they found the the check/deposit and the firearms receipt. They could not pin the Bank Robbery on him so they went after his Straw purchase.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  4. gr8oldguy

    gr8oldguy New Member

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    ^^^^^^ exactly
     
  5. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    It is fettering none the less. They just upheld a concept not an actual deed.
     
  6. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    I agree! A Straw Purchase is a Straw Purchase. Most all of us know the law and have followed it for years! This is not a new issue. And if they needed it as a tool to issue some type of punishment on a felon who was skating on them on a felony charge GO FOR IT! And especially as Mseric mentioned in this case! Not much of an issue on my end! I do not think it was any benefit or a win for the anti-gunners at all. Even though I am sure the Idiots would like to think so and beat their drums as a victory when it in fact was not at all! It is just a continued clarification of the present law!

    03
     
  7. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    I'm sure many will disagree with the decision but it sounds pretty clear cut in this case. The guy got a check with a note saying "Glock 19" and then 4 days later buys a Glock 19 for the guy who wrote him the check.

    The gunshow loophole is not a loophole at all but if this went the other way I would call it a huge loophole to avoid NICS checks. I'm in the minority on this board but I actually think the NICS system is not bad.
     
  8. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Keep in mind that the deal involved different states and thus was an illegal transfer over state lines.

    Had the firearm been purchased by the guy in VA and sent from seller directly to the guy in PA (through a PA FFL), there would not have been anything illegal.

    If I decide to purchase Axxe a gun from some guy in CA, I would have the gun sent to an FFL in Axxe's state and have the seller address the package to Axxe at the FFL. And have the bill of sale in Axxe's name. Axxe would do the transfer paperwork in his name as the actual transferee. In this instance, Axxe is the one actually being the transferee. This is provided that I do not end up with the firearm in my possession. (Of course, I am too dern cheap to do such a thing.)

    Now, if JonM came to Florida (as if), and I gave him a firearm (as if), that would be an illegal transfer of a firearm. JonM is not a resident of FL and such a transfer would have to take place through a FFL in WI.

    If I go to WI with a firearm and want to give it to JonM (as if), we would have to do the transfer through a FFL in WI. JonM would fill out the paperwork as the transferee. If I gave it to JonM without a FFL involvement, I would be guilty of an illegal transfer.

    https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
     
  9. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    What gets me is they prosecute these two but no one prosecutes the thousands of people who are prohibited from buying a gun who try to buy a gun anyway. According to the NRA less than 100 people (I think 73) were prosecuted for trying to buy a gun.
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    this is correct. only reason to go to florida is fishing!!
     
  11. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    \

    It's because he was a bank robber and the only thing that would stick was the Straw Purchase. If he would have not been a suspect in a bank robbery nobody would have even known and this would have never happened.
     
  12. Franklin1995

    Franklin1995 New Member

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    So lesson learned. Pay for it a couple days AFTER the person buys it. Then it's just a private sale of a gun that the original buyer did not want anymore :)
     
  13. uanda

    uanda New Member

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    so now you can't give a gun to somebody anymore, like a kid for his 16th birthday, probably? Wrong, btw, about the attempts to purchase. I personally know of a guy who did 2.5 years in Fed prison for trying to purchase, after he had a felony. If he'd appealed, he'd probably have won, under the 5th amendment, but do you know how long appeals take, at the Federal level? 3-6 years.
     
  14. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    Thats right, if a 16 year old writes you a check and writes "buy me a gun" in the notes section and you cash it and buy them a gun with that money... you have broken the law because you lied on the form you swore you didnt lie on.
     
  15. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I tried to buy a gun for my wife. I wanted the gun to be in her name. I asked the LGS if I could just leave a check (joint account) for my wife to purchase the gun. They said no! But they were more than willing to sell me a gift certificate for her to buy the gun with. The gift certificate had a charge of $6 on each $100. My wife has one of my credit cards with her name on it. So she just purchased the gun with the credit card. If we had not been searching for that gun for months I would have told them to stick the gun where the sun doesn't shine. That was over 10 years ago and neither of us have set foot in that gun shop since. Even recently they had 22 wmr ammo for $13 a box we didn't go there. I paid $15 a box to avoid going there. Really, the $15 a box worked out about the same...This place is about 40 miles from here.
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    damn! i had my hopes up after this i was going to get a new pistol!:(

    from what i gather, it just further penalizes the lawful gun owner, not the criminals.

    the entire reason to make straw purchases illegal was so they could prosecute a person who knowingly bought a firearm for someone who couldn't legally buy one themselves. when this first went into effect, there were many cases where criminals and felons were using wives, girlfriends, family members who had clean records doing the purchases.

    there are already plenty of laws in place that make it illegal for a felon to be in possession of a firearm.
     
  17. Franklin1995

    Franklin1995 New Member

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    Axxe, I thought you knew how these things worked already...... when a law is broken, politicians like to pass more laws that way it looks like they're doing something!
     
  18. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    These are all lumping laws to make prosecutors jobs easy. Actual Intent is everything but now its overridden by Assumed Intent. A Grandma sending her grandson with a pistol permit his Grandpas Service 1911 in another state is now a felon along with her Grandkid. My buddy picking up a rifle for me at a gun show makes him and me felons. Registering, paying fees, being inconvenienced and passing it through ATF approved FFL hands makes the same thing legal? Isnt that mandatory weapons registration and Fettering?

    If you get someone to buy you a weapon they know will be used to deny someone else their rights, then your intent matches the crime and you deserve the same punishment as the person that you bought it for.
     
  19. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    If the "Money" was in your hands before the purchase, it is a "Straw". If you received "money" after you purchased it with your money, then no "straw".
     
  20. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but it is incorrect.

    Buying a firearm as a Gift is NOT a Straw purchase.

    Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.