Scope worth losing rear BUIS?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by CHLChris, May 8, 2011.

  1. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I've got a flat-top AR-15 that has only iron sights. I've got a YHM flip-up front sight gas block and a picatinny rear back up iron sight, also YHM.

    I'd like to add a scope, but so many of the options will take up the entire real estate of the flat-top rail.

    Is losing the rear sight worth having a scope? I'm thinking of a 1-3x-30mm scope by Barska, but I am open to thoughts.

    There are risers, etc., but I don't want to raise the scope too high to mess up the cheek weld.
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Length of barrel? Application? Full length rail, or standard 1913 rail?

    A little more info would help us help you....

    JD
     

  3. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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  4. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    What are you going to be using it for? My AR needed a scope but the next one I do will be a 16" barrel with irons only.
     
  5. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Well, this is the same rifle that is discussed completely here: First AR-15 Build...Here I go!

    It is a 16" barrel, but the length of the rail isn't clear to me. I could go measure it, but I thought flattop uppers were to some degree a common length. The numbered picatinny rail goes to 13.

    I was considering this scope: Barska 1-3x30mm, but would have to remove the sight.

    This Leupold Elevated Riser might make the difference in allowing for the rear sight AND be high enough for cowitness.

    Edit: Use? Zombies a block away.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  6. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Tango, those handgun scopes look pretty good, but 11" minimum eye relief does not seem to be enough for an AR. The price range ($150-300) seems about right for my pocketbook, though. I liked how the Barska at Optics Planet had a larger objective (30mm vs. 20mm of those HG scopes).

    But I do like your idea of a reticle that does NOT require a stupid battery. And with a base like you suggest, I think there would be more than enough room for the rear sight PLUS it would be far enough forward for the increased eye relief required.

    Thanks for leading me in that direction.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    nothing wrong with a battery powered reticle long as you can use the reticle in bright sunshine and at nite with no working battery :)

    a block away under 300yds a riser makes no diff at all. my pref is the traditional fixed carrying handle and if i mount an optic its waaaaay above the bore. the 556 round doesnt drop much up to 300yds. past that its a different issue.
     
  8. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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  9. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    If you get an extra tall cantilevered scope mount you might get enough eye relief plus be able to keep a rear BUIS folded down. Usually extra tall is ideal for the AR anyway.
     
  10. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I am definitely thinking magnification that is adjustable. 1-4x or 1.5-4x is my hope. With 1x available, I'll be able to keep my support eye open. But I'm open to other thoughts on this issue.

    I would love for it to be just the right height for co-witness, but far enough forward that I could still fold down my sight. I think I'd better get out my tape measure and start doing some figurin'.

    Thanks for all your AR-15 Builder help!
     
  11. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Here's another thought. In a fluid situation, do I really need a cheek weld? What about using a scope mount that puts the scope ABOVE the iron sights, with a see-through capability to be able to throw my cheek down on the stock to use my iron sights?

    Employing a cheek weld is a little uncomfortable anyway on my neck. This way, I could stay away from Handgun scopes and stay with rifle scopes.

    BTW, I have done some measuring and I will need at least 7" of eye relief, with the adjustable stock set at its longest (my preference). A handgun scope seems to require about 11" and a rifle scope 3-5". This is why I am wondering about raising the scope ABOVE the iron sights.
     
  12. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    One more thought, after a couple hours of searching around for odd mounts.

    I'm thinking I'm just going to buy as good a scope I can purchase, probably with 3-5" of eye relief, remove the rear BUIS, fold down the front sight, install it into a nice 1-piece 2-ring mount by Leupold or YHM and then deal with a more specialized mount when I have more money.

    This money really ought to go into the glass and not be frittered away on weird special mounts. There's a Leupold Mark AR series scope I've got my eye on.

    Simple is better.
     
  13. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger New Member

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    I was going to say, the BUIS are nice to have, and correct me if I'm wrong, but why would you need them if you have a scope on the rifle and no batteries in the scope to run out?

    This is just my opinion, but I don't personally think I'm going to get into a situation where I have to rely on BUIS because my batteries are dead and the zombies are coming.
     
  14. EW1066

    EW1066 Member Supporter

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    I would suggest that co-witness is not an issue with a magnified optic. Co-witness is something you do for a red dot (aimpoint) sight or a holographic (eotech) sight.The purpose of co-witness is so if/when your optic goes out, you simply flip up your irons and stay in the fight. Because you can sight through the ,now defunct, optic. You cannot do this with a magnified optic. The front sight is too close to the optic. As a result it is a barely visible blurry mass at the bottom of your sight picture when looking through the optic. Backup iron sights on a weapon with magnified optic is pointless unless you also get a quick detach base for the scope. Without a QD base, you will need tools to remove the scope in order to bring the buis into play. If you are hell bent on a scope, either get the QD mount so you can use your BUIS, or just take the rear sight off of the gun and don't look back.

    EWDUB


    ETA: LONYEAGER beat me to it.
     
  15. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are scope bases and mounts that are attached and removed with a single lever. I dont like being battery dependent either so I use low power fixed or variable scopes. 2.5x on my 10-22s and 1.5-5x on other guns where I want fast sighting capabilities. I have found that shotgun reticles are very fast.
     
  16. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    You can do a magnified optic w/ a 45degree offset RDS. That way you can use less expensive rings. All you'll have to do is rotate the rifle 45degrees to aquire the RDS. No need to remove your magnified optic to deploy the RDS or BUIS. Its a 3gun thing that works great and is extremely fast.
     
  17. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    That's a good point, lon! Without a battery-dependent scope, a standard scope isn't likely to fail, except from blunt force trauma. :eek:

    This is a scope question. Is an IR scope better for SHTF, though, given that low-light condition and less than optimal conditions might prevail? I might want a reticle that is super easy to acquire. That glowing red dot or cross may be more helpful than not.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2011
  18. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I just ordered a Nikon M-223 1-4x20mm with Point Blank Reticle from Optics Planet.

    For my neighborhood-protecting, goblin-stopping needs, this combination of magnification, reticle, and quality is perfect for me!

    It is on sale at Optics Planet for $279, and it includes a $100 Nikon mount and free shipping. Then I also found a coupon code online (spiv5of) and got 5% off.

    $264

    By the way, I'll be removing my rear BUIS until I someday get a quick-release mount. I guess the $80 sight is going to go in the drawer. Oh well...