Scope Mounting Problem

Discussion in 'Optics & Mounts' started by dexntex, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. dexntex

    dexntex New Member

    32
    0
    0
    I recently purchased and installed Leupold two-piece Dual Dovetail bases and rings on a long-range Savage 112 BVSS rifle. I then mounted an inexpensive but normal Tasco 10-40x50 mm scope with a 1" tube that fits nicely in the rings. Everything is normal, right? No. The scope and barrel seem to be pointing in different directions and I can't get the POI's high enough, even with 0.025" shims under the rear base. I checked out the scope and elevation adjustments respond linearly between 0 and 30 MOA (I have a graph for anyone interested). With the scope elevation turned all the way up to 30 MOA, I can barely zero the rifle at 100 and 200 yds. Forget it beyond 200 yds. All POI's are way low. I am sure everything is installed correctly and torqued to 28 inch-pounds as recommended by Leupold. Leupold advertises the bases as for a Savage 10/110 round receiver but isn't a 110 round action equivalent to a 112 round action? A picture of the setup is attached. Does anyone have an idea of what might be wrong here? :confused:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    11,342
    16
    38
    Have you checked the barrel specs? Heavy and sporter barrel mounts are not interchangeable, even within the same model like 112.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    Need better pics but it appears the scope is very high. Are the rings marked for front rear?? I'm not hugely familiar with leupold two piece setups. Can you post a pic of how high the bell is off the barrel.

    Its possible the rings are mismatched. The overhang on the rear base doesn't look right either.
     
  4. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,677
    390
    83
  5. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    11,342
    16
    38
    No, he said it's a dual dovetail mount, which it looks to be.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014
  6. dexntex

    dexntex New Member

    32
    0
    0
    Quick answers

    Here are quick answers to all of the questions and comments.

    The Leupold "Standard" rear base has windage screws. The "Dual Dovetail" does not. http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoo...ting-systems/dd-savage-10110-round-rcvr-2-pc/

    The rear base overhang is normal.

    Yes, the scope is high. They are Leupold's "Super High" (1.00-inch-high) rings. The Leupold website gives the heights of all of their rings (same link as above). Super Highs were needed to clear the objective bell of the target scope. Still, there is only a few mm of clearance, especially with the scope covers on. A picture w/o covers is attached.

    To my knowledge, there are not front and back rings. I believe they are both 1" high.

    A target barrel may have a larger diameter than a sporter barrel so I guess it is possible that a mount may clear a sporter barrel and not a target barrel but, in either case, as long as you clear the barrel, you're good to go.

    I have technical questions into both Leupold and Savage but have not received answers yet. We'll see what they have to say but, still, I'm looking for any ideas anyone may have.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  7. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,677
    390
    83
    I have never used the dual dovetail mounts. Every thing in the photo looks normal. Have you checked the rifle with a different scope? Have you tried an alignment bar in the rings?
     
  8. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    11,342
    16
    38
    The more I look at the picture, the more it seems you got the wrong set for this rifle. The line of sight is angled to the probable POI. I know a little about the Leupold mounts, two of my rifles gave them on now. Are you sure the DD mount is for your rifle at all? They are newer and cover fewer models. Mine are all traditional Leupold. If this doesn't make sense, please ignore.
     
  9. dexntex

    dexntex New Member

    32
    0
    0
    Yes, this does make sense to me. If they are misaligned, why are they? These are what Leupold sells for the Model 110 which, at the present time, I believe is equivalent to the Model 112. Here is exactly how they are listed on the Leupold website: Bases are DD Savage 10/110 Round Rcvr 2-pc, Part #114975. Rings are DD 1-in Super High, Part #49919. So, these seem like the the right set for the rifle. I have also used DD bases and rings on another rifle and they have performed superbly. I don't know what is wrong on this rifle.

    While I prefer to find out what's wrong, I'll settle for solving the problem even w/o knowing what's wrong. Are more shims the answer? I know this is not preferable for a scope. Does anyone know how much shimming stress a scope can take?

    I AM thinking about trying another scope. Initially, I did have a 1" dowl in the rings but no scope alignment bar. With all of the shimming, I think the ring alignment would be screwed up anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  10. Triumphman

    Triumphman Active Member

    1,011
    16
    38
    If you can't get enough Elevation adjustment of Scope to bring Barrel Tip up to Target, then the Scope's angle is riding upwards(barrel tip is pointed down/Scope is pointing up). I had a problem like this before with Weaver Rings, but I couldn't get Barrel to come down(Scope was pointing downwards/Rifle tip going up). Great for distance shooting for 500yds, but I was Zeroing for 100yds. Looked at Rings and had to replace, as they were mismatched in packaging, and 1 Ring was a couple Millimeters taller than the other one.

    I would just go out and get another set of Rings/Bases to replace to see if this cures problem. Even if from different Manufacturer.

    Looking at picture, The Base hangover of the Rear just doesn't look correct, but may be due to these model of Rings. Is Receiver drilled same, and can you switch the Base/Ring Combo to see if this will clear up your problem, or is the Bases drilled differently to not be able to? I always try to eliminate/correct the easiest first.

    Going back and thinging of another solution/problem. If this is a new Rifle, is it possible that Savage incorrectly Milled the Receiver and gave the Barrel too much droop? While Scope is fine, but Barrel is not on correct Plane to Receiver attachment.
    Might also be a good scenerio to use Burris Signature Zee Rings w/0, 5, 10, 20 degree Inserts to correct.
    Del
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  11. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    11,342
    16
    38
    Thanks for the numbers! I looked them up on the following page.

    http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoo...ting-systems/dd-savage-10110-round-rcvr-2-pc/

    Now click on the tab Recommended Firearms. The only Savage on that list is the Axis. Doesn't add up! In your shoes I'd be on the phone or chat with Savage. Good luck with your project, I have learned something too.
     
  12. dexntex

    dexntex New Member

    32
    0
    0
    Good ideas Triumphman. Reversing the bases is worth a try. I would expect and it looks to be that the hole spacing is the same on both bases. The bases are currently as they are pictured on a Remington in a Leupold video about Dual Dovetails at [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpb-TFeIRSw[/ame] but still, it looks like reversing them is possible.

    That's interesting and disappointing that you had experience with Weaver rings that were mismatched by a few mm in the package. it would also be disappointing, and surprising, if the receiver and barrel were not aligned from the Savage factory. I have thought about that though. I bought this rifle from an individual who claimed it was never fired. I hope he was telling it to me straight and didn't know more than he let on. But I'm not so sure for these reasons. The rifle did already have on it a Leupold single-piece base with Medium rings (too low for my scope) and he claimed he had a scope on it but never fired it. I guess that's possible. He also gave me some partial boxes of mixed ammo so from what gun was the missing ammo fired? Everything looked very new but I though I saw a trace of copper in the barrel (could that be from a factory test firing?) and there was a primer ring on the face of the bolt. Am I being naive or too suspicious?

    I've read about but don't know much about the Burris rings. I could be wrong but I think the rings inserts are "synthetic." I don't like the idea of plastic in a scope mount system.
     
  13. dexntex

    dexntex New Member

    32
    0
    0
    Hmm. That's interesting. I didn't even notice the "Recommended Firearms" tab and it's very curious that other Savage models are not listed. I WILL be talking to Savage about that. Thanks for that tip.
     
  14. Triumphman

    Triumphman Active Member

    1,011
    16
    38
    Dexntex. Something before swapping out the Bases, which I just remembered. They might be Milled differently on the bottom with their curvatures, so they fit the Receiver correctly, so thus they might not be exchangable with each other. Just look at curvature of your Receiver, and you'll know real quickly.

    As to the Burris Ring Inserts, they are of a Nylon material. They're done this way to not scratch/bend or in any way damage a Scope. Many Guys use them for their expensive Scopes for this reason. Also, they're guaranteed to not let the Scope slip, move once they're torqued down properly. Many Hunters/Shooters use them on high recoil Rifles. So no need to fear about a loose Scope using these Rings.
     
  15. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

    4,435
    29
    38
    I've never care much for 2 pc bases on any Savage rifle,and only use Weaver/Picatinny rails. I also only use Burris Signature Zee rings on all of my rifles.
    IMO,They are the best rings made.
    I use Ken Farrell bases on my 110 FLP 25/06 - 10 FCP 308 - 12 FLVSS 223,and Weaver bases on my custom built 12 FLV 7mm-08 and 6.5 Creedmoor. I also have an EGW base on my 110 FLP 300 WM.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

    11,342
    16
    38
    Speaking of the Burris inserts, in one instance the 1" tube scope was misaligned beyond the windage adjustment range. I replaced the rings with 1" and it was fine. The mount was Leupold traditional.