Scope for POF .308

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Gloves, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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  2. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    My advice is to shoot it with irons for the time being, and save up until you can get a good scope. If you get a cheap scope, you're not going to be happy, especially with such a nice rifle. Just my opinion though.

    -Fred
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    I agree. 308 in a short barrel will beat a cheap scope to death. Especially if you have a muzzle brake. Yes 20" is short for a 308.
     
  4. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    THE POF-308 doesn't come with irons. I was thinking I might skip this step.

    I do hear people say, get a good scope, but isn't a mediocre scope better than irons? Having a fixed 4x cheap scope will get you smaller groups than irons?

    When looking for a good scope what am i looking for?

    • Solid construction - will hold up to recoil without drifting
    • Magnification - Cheap and expensive scopes claim big numbers 4 to 26 / 6 to 24 power... so more expensive doesn't get you bigger zoom.
    • Size of front lens - 35 mm vs 40 mm vs 50 mm, I know this has some of the cost built into it but not a tremendous amount.
    • Clarity - I've looked through expensive scopes and less-expensive scopes and they all seem to be brighter than daylight.
    • Reticule - Mildot, Cross hair, illuminated etc... not sure if this has to do with cost but a personal preference.
    • Eye Relief - Don't know if this has cost built into it, but eye distance from scope 3-5" I would think is desirable.
    • Blackout - (i think this is what it's called) I think this is what separates the Thousand dollar scope from the hundred dollar scope. How much range of motion you have before you see nothing but black.
    • Field of view - Doesn't this have to do with magnification? Or can i go with a big zoom and still see a wide picture? Is this what costs $$$?

    Sorry for the long list. I'm needing some help here. I can get a great pair of binos for $200-300 why not a great scope?
     
  5. griffin81

    griffin81 New Member

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    You should look into swift scopes I bought on for my .308 and like it. And it was only $300, including the tactical mounts I bought too.

    let the bullets do the talking!
     
  6. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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  7. TacticalPrecision

    TacticalPrecision New Member

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    For that kind of money you could get a Christensen Arms gun, that I think is of a better quality. they Guarantee with quality ammo a sub MOA gun out of the box, not to mention many of the other ammenities that come with them stock and they are very VERY light(sub 7lbs empty).

    As for the scope, get something nice and have it mounted and sighted by an expert, I bought a nice scope awhile back and the douchebag put it on wrong and my adjustments were way off for a scope zeroed at 500yrds, I couldn't get a center shot at less than 300 yards had to start using the mils to get on target. It ended up being that the guys "apprentice" had mounted it and he fixed it for free. In his defense I suppose in normal applications this would have been fine for a 200 yrd zero.

    As for the question about groups with Irons - If you are Consistent and Proficient with Iron Sights you can maintain very tight groups with them at moderate ranges. Yes at longer ranges, Beyond 200 yards the ability to get an iron sight accurately on a small target does make it difficult to maintain groups, but I have seen good target hits out beyond that with Iron Sights by well trained marksmen. The limitations of Irons are apparent at certain points, however having a rifle without a set of iron sights for backups is - In my Opinion - asking for disaster. If something happens like you drop your rifle or bang it into something in an accident and your scope either breaks or the mounts are damaged or some variation and you don't have some Irons for backups you completely eliminate your chances of finishing out a hunting trip with that gun. Some people carry spares, I just have backup sights for all mine. my Savage doesn't, but I carry a backup 4x scope for it on a quick release mount. No it's not as good as my regular scope, but it's carried in a hardcase in my pack and I check it's zero before I go out with it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  8. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    What's the intended purpose for the rifle? A hunting rifle needs a much different scope than a target rifle.

    Also, what distances are you planning on shooting? Will you be shooting at either dawn or dusk, or will it all be during full daylight hours?

    The reason I mentioned getting irons first is three fold. A good set of flip up irons is much cheaper than a good scope. They will help get you acquainted with the rifle while you're saving up for a scope. And lastly, as has been stated before, all rifles should have some sort of backup sight setup.

    If you buy a cheap scope, two things will probably happen, one is that it will not hold zero well. I made the mistake of buying a cheap scope for an AR10 once, and I was constantly adjusting it. The second thing that will happen is with a rifle like that, as has been stated, it's gonna beat up the scope, and a cheap one won't last long.

    On an ending note, you just spent $2500+ on a rifle. Do yourself a favor and put a good scope on it. There's no sense in spending that kind of money on a rifle and running it with cheap glass. It's like buying a Lamborghini and running 87 octane it in.

    -Fred
     
  9. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  10. Blackbeard1718

    Blackbeard1718 New Member

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    Check SWFA and Natchez for some Great Prices on Scopes.

    I don't believe you'll be happy with the Barska on your 308, with the amount of Recoil you'll get. Chances are, you'll lose ZERO pretty quick, and spend your Range Time trying to Re-ZERO your Scope. Do some research, spend a little more money the first time, so you don't have to go back and buy another Scope later, after experiencing Buyer's-Remorse.

    If you're going to be shooting that far, I'd suggest something with an AO (Adjustable Objective), like a 4-16x50 or a 6.5-20x50. FYI, if you buy a Scope with a Larger Objective Bell (The front end of the Scope), you'll allow more light to enter. So, look at the last number of the Scope Size, such as 4-16x50..... the "50" is the Bell Size.

    Also, choose your Reticle carefully. Some shooters who buy Scopes with Mil-Dot Reticles, post reviews that the Reticle is great for 50-100 yds, however, the size of the Mil-Dot can cover up the Target at greater distances.

    I'd suggest a brand like Bushnell, Vortex, Weaver, Leupold, etc., that fits your Scope Budget.

    FYI, I just bought a Nitrex 4-16x50 Scope (Made by Weaver, and same as the Weaver Grand Slam...) from Natchez last week for $179 on Closeout. The original price was $410. I mounted it on my AR-15 yesterday, and it Sights easily. I fired 100 Rounds, and the Scope held ZERO perfectly.

    Best of Luck!

    Cheers!

    BB
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Solid construction - will hold up to recoil without drifting

    its how the dials are constructed that will hold up or not. this is one of the costlier areas to construct. this is a major cost in scopes like nightforce and the leupold mk4

    Magnification - Cheap and expensive scopes claim big numbers 4 to 26 / 6 to 24 power... so more expensive doesn't get you bigger zoom.

    not really it does cost more but again its how well the glass is made and how well its mounted. ive had cheaper scopes delaminate the lens under heavy recoil.

    Size of front lens - 35 mm vs 40 mm vs 50 mm, I know this has some of the cost built into it but not a tremendous amount.

    its not just the objective its also the distance between lenses and the size of the rest of the lenses. bigger without a fish eye effect at the edges costs money.

    Clarity - I've looked through expensive scopes and less-expensive scopes and they all seem to be brighter than daylight.

    try looking through the edges and under lower light conditions thats where glass clarity comes into play.

    Reticule - Mildot, Cross hair, illuminated etc... not sure if this has to do with cost but a personal preference.

    this can get really pricey especially if you opt for a front focal plane reticle. reticles like the horus and a few other propriartary ones are very expensive. my personal preference after much soul searching is moa hash marks. i know how to use mildots but its too much mental hulahoops. i think in inches not mils. ive got one mildot and one moa i prefer the moa.
    Eye Relief - Don't know if this has cost built into it, but eye distance from scope 3-5" I would think is desirable.

    3-5" is typical but its got more to do with the zoom level than anything. scopes with a very wide range of zoom will have you moving your head a lot. personally i dont like huge range of zoom.

    Blackout - (i think this is what it's called) I think this is what separates the Thousand dollar scope from the hundred dollar scope. How much range of motion you have before you see nothing but black.

    not really its the effect of being out of range of the eye relief. schmitt bender have gradual gradient of grey to black nightforce goes from clear to black snappy damn fast. i prefer the way the nightforce works. i KNOW the eye relief is right and dont have to guess if that little smudge is me being out of eye relief or not.

    Field of view - Doesn't this have to do with magnification? Or can i go with a big zoom and still see a wide picture? Is this what costs $$$?

    pretty much zoom level most scopes will be similar in field of view. the bigger the objective lens the wider the field of view at a given range.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  12. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    Blackbeard1718, that's the kind of info I'm looking for!

    In CA we aren't allowed to hunt 1 hour after dusk. so the low-light isn't that necessary. So do you think i need a 50mm ? I was thinking defiantly a 40mm.

    What are people's thoughts on Nikon Scopes? I love the one i got on top of the .458



    JonM can't wait to read yours but i'm leaving work right now.
     
  13. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Gloves,The glass in the Weaver Super Slam is a lot better than the Nikon Monarch glass.
    I just put a 3-15x50 Weaver Super Slam on my 458 SC and it's a very nice and quality scope for the price.I also purchased it thru Natchez,for around $350.It also has a $50 mail in rebate.

    I have quite a few scopes on my rifles that are $800 and up,and I was surprised by the quality of the Weaver Super Slam.

    Weaver 3-15X50 Super Slam Riflescope Side Focus Dual-X Reticle Matte - Natchez Shooters Supplies 3-15X50 Super Slam Riflescope Side Focus Dual-X Reticle Matte
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    depends on what your hunting and how far your expecting to shoot. my max shot is 150 yards on whitetail so on my 458 socom i use a 4x scope right now its got a nikon african monarch. the only issue ive got with it is it doesnt hold zero on atvs. too much vibration. i wont be going deer hunting this year :( due to work requirements but for next year this is going on my socom: COMPACT 1-4x24 NXS

    im not the end all on scopes tho :) there are much more knowledgable folks than about scopes lurking around
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  15. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Hell Jon,I don't think I could see a target with a 4x at 150 yards.

    My eyes are like the rest of me,Beat up from many years of abuse.
     
  16. TacticalPrecision

    TacticalPrecision New Member

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    Friend of mine has a Coyote Special series Nikon on top of his Savage Model 10 with a similar styled synthetic camo stock. They match well and he likes his. That's about all the experience I have with Nikon scopes, i stick mostly to leupold on mine.
     
  17. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    ya your milage varies :) i need glasses to shoot decent i do very well with open sights but scopes im still learning. if you need the extra oomph get a nice 9x or bigger. when i get much past 15x mirage gets to be a big factor and just holding the rifle twitches the xhairs a lot for me.
     
  18. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    John, I finished reading your response. In fact i read it twice. You sould make a sticky post 'What to look for in a scope' or 'Choose the right scope for your shooting activity'

    In any case...
    This will be my 3rd scope.
    1st scope was a 4x chinese ACOG style that broke every way possible under the .458.
    2nd scope is the Nikon 1.65-5 x 36 - I finally zeroed it and can't wait to use it more often.
    Nikon Omega 8441 All Riflescopes - Sports Optics

    I like the MOA. I've read a few articles on how to use Mildot and still had a hard time understanding. MOA I can do!

    I don't feel that all scoped rifles need to have backup irons. In fact i see most hunting rifles only have one or the other. backup flip sights would be nice. But i think it's kind a luxury.

    my god, too many choices of scopes.
    I think i'll want something starting at 4x and zooming between 12x and 18x


    I was looking at the Leupold scopes and
    YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!@!)((!@$)(!@$
    [​IMG]

    That picture sums up my frustration. I should give up now and stick with iron sights.

    Someone tell me, "hand's down this is the scope you need to get for your rifle"
     
  19. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    CA357 has a scope for sale that might suit your current needs. $120. It is in the firearms for sale section.
     
  20. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    It may be here and I just missed it, but I didn't see where you said exactly what the purpose of the rifle is. I know you mentioned something about hunting laws, but I'm not sure if that's the primary purpose. Purpose of the scope/rifle is going to make a big difference in what scope people recommend.

    IMO, if you bought that rifle for hunting, you are going to be unhappy with it. While it is a super nice rifle, it is far too much rifle for hunting, and is, imo, too heavy for a hunting rifle.

    If hunting is the purpose, a 3-9 is more than enough. When you crank it up to higher powers and put the crosshairs over the animal, you won't be able to see anything but fur, and will thus have a hard time knowing exactly where you're aiming. Just something to think about.

    -Fred