SCIENCE!!! The 1911 in space

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Benning Boy, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    I tried this elsewhere, and got some decent responses, but never a real answer. And you guys are smarter, so let's see.


    A 1911 floats in space. It is stationary. It is equipped with a remote firing system, we can discharge it without touching it. We do that.

    What will it do? How will it move? Since we're sort of "limp wristing" it, will it feed the next round? Will it stay in place, move straight back, spin a certain way?

    Discuss....
     
  2. Shihan

    Shihan Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Is it floating in open space or in a space shuttle with controlled environment? If in open space there may be temperature issues with the metallurgy and actually being able to fire the pistol.
     

  3. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    I believe it will fire even without their being any oxygen in the atmosphere.

    I believe it would depend on how it were fired as to how it moves. Is there some sort of mechanical system in place to hold the grip safety down while also pulling the trigger or will it be a system that causes the gun to fire without movement of the trigger? I'm going to assume it's a mechanical system that when fired instantly removes itself from the gun and causes no impact on the physics involved.

    I believe the gun will begin to spin and travel backwards and down, but more backwards than down. The bullet will travel slower than normal as well. The force of the powder exploding will cause pressure in many directions, once the slide comes back a bit, pressure escaping the ejection port will cause the gun to start moving down. As the shell ejects I fear it might get jammed as the slide comes to a close.
     
  4. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    If it fires(For this discussion I will assume that yes indeed it will fire in space). The slide will not operate as it has no weight in space. The gun itself will be propelled back (spinning as it is being pushed from the top) at the same exact rate at which the bullet is being forced out.

    It's really that simple.

    NOTE:

    I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. everything in space is moving at a uniform speed that is why everything is weightless.

    II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

    III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    The bullet and the 1911 itself have zero weight in space. So the force applied to the rear of the bullet and the rear of the cartridge case are going to be exactly the same as they have the same area.

    Now the firearm may not move as fast as the bullet because the firearm has much more mass than the bullet.

    In space you push off the space station and you will float off in to space and it will not move because the mass of the station is so much more than your body mass.

    Weight can change mass is a constant.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  5. Shihan

    Shihan Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Tango sounds like Michio Kaku.
     
  6. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    Okay, so we'll go with the premise that it will indeed fire.

    How do the springs, hammer, and orientation of the ejection port come into play?
     
  7. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    We need Mythbusters to team up with NASA to answer this for sure.

    I think this could actually be figured out mathematically. Well I'm sure it COULD be done, I'm just not that smart. But I will give it rough guess.

    I just took these measurements
    Slide = 13.37oz
    everything else with full magazine = 34.96oz
    no magazine = 26.49oz

    So I understand that weight is affected by gravity and in space that's pretty much 0 but mass is not. Since the materials of the frame are the same as the slide the mass should scale with the weight (right? I'm guessing here).

    Since the frame has twice the mass of the slide, I believe that using my advanced guesstimational and ACME physics algorithms I have concluded that the slide would move just not as much as on earth, but twice as much as the frame would move. Well except that the spring would still work returning the slide to it's original position actually likely counter rotating the gun at that point or reducing the guns rotation at least. This is also assuming the slide is well lubricated as friction would play a factor reducing slide movement.
     
  8. Shihan

    Shihan Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Who will make a vacuum chamber large enough to fit inside a plane that can drop down out of the sky to simulate weightlessness and we can pull this of. FTF has enough builders, pilots and 1911 owners to pull this off.
     
  9. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    I'm assuming that, barring asteroids or black holes, the bullet would achieve the greatest range a .45 ACP ever has.

    Would it maintain velocity?
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Back to my original post.

    Ok so if it doesn't come in contact with ANY outside force (IE solar wind gravity well, planetary bodies, astroids, comets, ect....) the bullet will continue on its course for ever (Or until it runs out of space) the velocity will stay exactly the same if the bullet has NO EXTERNAL Force applied to it.
     
  11. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    So the 1000 yard shot with a 1911 IS possible....
     
  12. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    A 1,000 Mile shot is possible. What would really be interesting is if you were in space and pushed the target away from you. Then wait a couple minutes and fire at it. You would need a something with a nice zoom on it to see if you hit your target though. But they got a good camera up there with a really big zoom on it already.
     
  13. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Tango is 100% correct, the entire gun and the bullet will move at exactly the same speed and force in opposite direction and will continue moving until something else exerts the force to stop them. The gun will not reset to battery since the slide cannot tension the springs against the opposing force of the frame since both the slide and the frame are moving together at the same speed, in short since no force is holding the frame static the slide never goes back.

    One other thing to consider is that since there are no air molecules to compress into a sound wave you do not need ear protection.
     
  14. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    But wouldn't the mass differences of the frame vs slide cause the slide to move faster than the frame?

    Also couldn't this portion actually be tested in a place with gravity? Excluding the spin possibility, gravity would only be acting as a vertical force, the horizontal force would be independent. If that is the case then a gun fired on earth but not held when fired would not reset either. Or so my twisted mind has me thinking, I enjoyed physics in high school and probably could have better answered this question back then.
     
  15. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Initially yes but once the slide exerts force on the spring it will accelerate the frame so that the frame and slide will travel together. It's the ultimate limp wristing
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  16. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    What about the hammerfall? That's the first movement.....:confused:
     
  17. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    spring tension is just simply stored energy. Releasing that energy or in this case releasing the spring will cause that energy to be exerted. Since the case cannot move forward and the hammer is attached to the frame, the energy exerted would act the same as it does here on earth.

    I believe I am correct in saying that the hammerfall is basically springs in action.
     
  18. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    Right, but when it hits, is it moving the gun forward and down?
     
  19. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

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    SCIENCE!!!!!!!:eek:
     

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