Scenario -What would you do?

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by jamesb, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. jamesb

    jamesb New Member

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    My buddy and I were having a discussion and I'd like to know what you guys think. What would you do?

    SCENARIO: LEAVING THE MALL

    You are leaving the mall alone after going shopping. You have one bag in your weak hand and nothing in the other. You have a CCW and are carring it strong side IWB. Upon heading out into the parking garage where your car is parked two males that you did not see begin to follow you about 12 feet back. It is night time and you are alone. No one else seems to be around.

    You are aware of this and turn around and tell them to stop following you. You are walking backwards at this point with them 10 feet from you. Their hands are exposed, no weapons can be seen, but they seem to be following you for a reason other than a friendly conversation. They continue to advance. You tell them to "Stop! Get Back! Leave me alone!" To you it seems like you are going to get jumped, maybe attacked or carjacked. You are obviously concerned for your safety and these two guys don't seem detered by your commands.You continue to tell them to stop, while walking backwards to your vehicle which is parked at the far end of the lot.

    The only way to possibly get away is to run by them back into the mall or to run to your car and hope you can get inside before they get to you. Neither option seems like a good idea. You are watching their hands and they are still exposed, but dammit, they are still coming towards you and it doesn't seem like a friendly visit. They say they just want to talk, but it obviously seems like more.

    Considering they are acting aggressive, there isn't any sure way away from them without turning your back or trying to go around them what would you do? You draw your firearm, but they still advance and don't seem to be affected by it.


    I personally think this is a reason to draw your weapon. You feel threatened and are afraid that bodily harm will come to you. While they have no visable weapons they arn't friends, it's late at night, and their visit doesn't seem to be friendly. My question is do you feel it is justified to shoot if they continue to advance without any weapons?

    My friend thought you should draw, but shoot for their legs not center mass. He said it would be better to wound then to possibly kill them considering they have no weapons or haven't said anything threatening.

    I feel that it is definitely wrong to shoot to wound, but how can I explain it to him besides " you don't do that ever."?

    What would you do and what do you think of my friends reaction in this scenario?

    On one hand I think that shooting either of these guys is the wrong move, and looks bad if they don't have any weapons on them, but seeing what people can do once they get close enough even with their bare hands sure makes me feel threatened and fear for my life. Plus, they could have a knife or something and just haven't pulled it yet. They arn't sane seeing as how you keep telling them to stop and get back.

    NOTE: None of this happened. We were just having a discussion and seeing how we both had two totally different ways of considering handling it, I wanted others opinions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  2. DrJason

    DrJason New Member

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    1st, if I'm drawing my gun I'm planning on shooting......that said if they turn and run, I'm obviously not shooting them in the back unless they are running and shoot backwards (most likely not realistic). And if I'm shooting, I'm shooting center mass, otherwise you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation if they fire back and you are now out of bullets.

    I was taught if you are in an uncomfortable situation to say something beyond what you wrote "leave me alone" and say, "I have a gun, I don't want to hurt you, LEAVE ME ALONE".

    My $0.02, never actually been in a situation where I have had to use my weapon and hope to never have to.
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    You do not "shoot to wound" or "shoot to kill". You shoot to stop a threat against your life. I freely invite anyone that thinks they can reliably "shoot to wound" while moving, against a moving target, in poor light, under stress, multiple targets, to visit my world. The sky is a lovely blue color here, and I would love to know what color it is in their world.

    Translation- your friend is being totally unrealistic. Center mass has a much higher likelihood of stopping the threat. Even then, it does not work 100.0000% of the time. A friend, LEO, put two rounds of .357 in the chest of a bad guy at 3 ft. Bad guy had already broken my friend's collar bone (he did not know that at the moment, all he knew was that nothing on his left side worked) Bad guy turned and WALKED AWAY. Was tackled by 4 other LEOs responding, and fought with them. He did die in the ER- 30 minutes later. Better living thru chemistry- he was high as a kite.

    Back to your scenario- I have no idea what the motive is of the two subjects- if they are legit (store security that want to talk with me) they should identify themselves. LEO- show me the badge. If I have drawn a weapon, spoken, and they have ignored what I said, and continued to advance on me, there is about to be a very loud sound.
     
  4. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I think this covered it pretty well. Lots of factors can come into play. Folks DO NOT need to have a weapon to harm you - especially multiple folks. Using a tad more forceful language such as "Back the f_ck off or I'll shoot your silly azzes" may get their attention a bit quicker...
     
  5. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    "BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, and BANG!"

    The next sound is of a car door closing and the slight screech of tires can be heard exiting the parking lot.

    "News at Eleven." Hypothetically speaking...:cool:

    Now, some things to consider...Were you really alone, no one was anywhere around? Did you notice any parking lot cameras? Does your state have "Castle Doctrine" and/or "Stand your Ground Laws"...and did you really feel threatened and feared for your life? After several warnings to them and they refuse to stop, you draw your gun, and clearly and loudly state "I will shoot!" They continue to encroach way into the "21" foot mark of your personal defense space.

    "BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, and BANG!"
     
  6. jamesb

    jamesb New Member

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    I think that last line, if there happened to be somebody else to witness this, is going to make you look a bit crazy.

    Thanks guys! I definitely agree with "shooting to stop the threat". Not to kill or wound. That is what I originally ment.

    For this scenario the state has no castle or stand your ground law from my knowledge.

    OK, the lot has cameras that rotate 360 degrees. So it is possible this was caught on tape. Do anything different? How about if there was a male and female heading to their car 60 feet away?
     
  7. DrJason

    DrJason New Member

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    Of course that line is a little funny, but you get the point, you NEED to verbalize what you are going to do.

    Honestly, cameras or other people are not going to chance what I would do and what I stated in my 1st post.

    If your buddy still doesn't want to listen this advice I suggest he sign up for a defensive handgun course at S&W up in Springfield (as I noticed you are in CT), I have taken a number of courses there and one thing they stress is VERBALIZING your intentions to the aggressor with the hope that will be enough to deter them, most criminals are chickensh!ts and will only rob houses they think are empty or people they think are unarmed, it's takes a special type of sh!thead to continue when they know someone is in the house or the "target" is armed.
     
  8. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    Nothing would be more threatening than for you to walk past a parked vehicle, put your shopping bag down, turn and confront the two following you. Of course you would place your hand on your weapon, but not reveal it and ask the two, "Can I help you fella's?"

    My guess would be that at that point they would say, "No, we're just walking to our car right over there."

    To which you reply, "Well, by all means; go right ahead!"

    I'd watch them until they left in the vehicle.

    You are assuming there is a threat and that assumption is being reinforced by paranoia. Confront the threat and if it is real, if they say give us your wallet and car keys or your dead; then you can shoot them.

    The no witness issue is a problem, and I would not flee the scene, call police and explain what has happened. When they arrive, be sure your piece is unloaded and not in your immediate reach. Be cooperative and non-threatening and for God Sake, don't touch anything! If they are still alive, you could try to administer first aid.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  9. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I'll add one point to Dune's post - say nothing until you have your lawyer standing beside you. I know a couple of defense attorneys from a local GA gun forum and that is their #1 recommendation. Be polite - but keep your mouth shut until your lawyer has arrived.

    BTW, I'm sure glad GA is a "no retreat, stand your ground" state...
     
  10. collegekid20

    collegekid20 New Member

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    giving the scenario, I would not have turned and said anything to them. I would have first increased my walking pace to see if they did the same. If they did I would then walk between cars to see if they continue to follow me. Now if they get too close, then I will ask them what their deal is and if they don't give a reasonable/ believable response then out comes the personal protection. if they advance after that then bang bang, two to center mass for each. I believe in violence as the last option but if it gets down to it I don't want them to have a chance to tell the cops a lie and I end up getting screwed. just my opinion
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    So, let me get this straight. Two people in a garage after I have left the mall are advancing on me AFTER I have told them to leave me alone AND I have already pulled my weapon??

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ]YouTube - Collateral[/ame]
     
  12. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Is breaking into song and skipping an option? I would absolutely not consider robbing a person who just started singing and skipping.

    ;)
     
  13. DrJason

    DrJason New Member

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    I think everything that needs to be said, has been said.
     

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  14. jamesb

    jamesb New Member

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    ^I agree.

    I agree with the guy that said to increase walking speed and see if they do the same or keep following. I think it is a good idea if they are already not too close to you and show no visable weapon, but you have to remember an adult man can close a gap of 10 feet in something like 1 second. For most people that isn't wouldn't be enough time to draw and fire an their attacker.
     
  15. USEBOTHHANDS

    USEBOTHHANDS New Member

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    you DO NOT draw your weapon unless you are willing to use it and use it right then!

    you DO NOT tell them you have a weapon and try to "feign" them off. if they know you have it, but haven't pulled it yet.........there is a good chance that they could close the distance before you pull it and take it away from you.

    TWO FOLLOWERS, AND YOU TOLD, UH ASKED THEM (3 OR MORE TIMES) TO BACK OFF? that's a threat in itself: 2 : 1 is 2 : 1, regardless of how it seems.

    it's a tough call, but i'd get to a/my vehicle and try to put it between me and them, circling it if i had to; if they follow, or especially split up and try to corner me, THEN IT IS TIME TO DANCE.
     
  16. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    NGIB and IGETEVEN have covered it well. If I warn a person several times to leave me alone and they continue to advance they become a threat. The level of that threat will increase rapidly with each warning. If you tell a person, "I have a gun and if you do not leave me alone I will shoot you" and they don't stop....they aren't looking for directions.
     
  17. wldennis

    wldennis New Member

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    What he said....
     
  18. powg

    powg New Member

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    scenario

    In todays world it is really stupid to go shopping where one would be alone ,at night ,subject to a robbery ,rape or being killed, if you live in a high crime area.The posted ''what if '' seems too unrealistic for real life ..... cable tv maybe?
     
  19. jamesb

    jamesb New Member

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    How do you figure this is too unrealistic? Someone leave a business and then is followed. Seems plausable to me. This isn't a high crime area. I live in a nice town with a large mall. Busses run from other not so nice towns to the local mall though, which is why I don't go there very often. There have been a few reports of incidents from what I can recall. Overall it is a pretty safe neighborhood, but that doesn't mean something can't happen.

    I've gone many times to the mall alone, at night, and buying something. I don't do it often now. Usually I am with a friend or ordering online. I don't think this is too unrealistic.
     
  20. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    If your going to do this thing, don't forget to pick up your brass and destroy your weapon used or leave it there.

    The legal crap after the fact is such a bitch.

    And I agree this thread is stupid.