Sawed-off

Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by illusion11, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    well you need to study up on California state laws in regards to their gun laws.

    now the specifications you listed are the federal gun laws on shotguns, but California may be even more restrictive.
     
  2. harkersislandnc

    harkersislandnc Active Member

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    By the time you chop the barrel/find 2.5" shells it would probally be cheaper to buy an sed 870 and have something you know works.
     
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  3. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is a 10 year old thread that has been revitalized with some new questions. The game has changed. The new 14" barreled Mossberg and Remington firearms are not technically shotguns. They are the result of a loophole and are called firearms. I dont know if they are legal in Kalifornistan as they may not have had time to react. Under federal restrictions a shotgun must have an 18" barrel and a minimum overall length of 26". See link below for Kalifornistan.
    Personally I dont like pistol grip only shotguns. My 18.5" shotguns have shoulder stocks. I prefer control over portability. The only place I can see a use for one is in a vehicle or other very restricted area. If I had to use one I would want a laser on it. In my motorhome I keep a 20" double because it can be loaded or unloaded quickly and I can manage load selection easier than with a magazine fed gun. Also pretty much legal in most if not all states.
    As far as cutting the barrel on the 16 gauge, if you can do the work yourself go for it. If you have to pay a gunsmith , forget it.
    http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaShotgunGuide
     
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  4. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here we go again!!!o_O The LAST thing you want to do is 'rack' the slide so the criminal can hear it. Your response is typical of the emotional, uniformed response. From a realistic tactical side:
    1. You do not want the criminal know a. where you are. b. how you are armed.
    2. This completely negates your most important asset, the ELEMENT OF SURPRISE!
    3. Your ASSUMPTION is that this person is rational and will respond in 'fear' and not a drugged up nut case. :rolleyes:
     
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  5. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Seeing as how the muzzle of my SD shotgun resides not far from my cabeza as I sleep, it is not kept chambered. Seeing as how I ain't gonna rack it under the covers to keep it quite, I will take the risk of giving up my position.

    If the sound or racking the gun sends the invader out the door or window without me having to kill him, so much the better. I would very much like to finish my life without having ever harmed another human being, and I am willing to assume some risk to accomplish that goal.
     
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  6. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Just a note for you people with 12 gauge Mossberg pumps. With the Opsol adapter and the Aguila Mini buckshot (7 #4 buck + 4 #1 buck in each shell) you can almost double your load capacity. Recoil is close to 20 gauge. Noise level is also lower. I dont know how they work in Remingtons.
     
  7. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Emotion wins out over logic. I guess you proved that you are truly a liberal. Not meant as an insult, only pointing out our difference!!!;)
     
  8. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Different strokes for different folks. ;)
     
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  9. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    personally i don't believe in the racking of the slide to scare off an intruder, and if the argument is made that it would scare a rational person, i'm not going to assume that the person kicking in my door, is of a rational mindset. frankly, i'm not going to give them that benefit of the doubt.

    but, my shotgun is kept close by in the bedroom for any night time intruders, and is loaded, but not chambered. so that means i have to chamber a round in order to be able to use it. and if the intruder happens to hear that sound, it will probably be the last sound they hear before receiving a load of buckshot. now what i have done is practiced racking the slide from a position of the shotgun being shouldered.

    i don't recommend this for everyone, but if a person decides to use my method, i very much recommend and suggest practicing it at the range first and to become comfortable with that method before relying upon it in life or death situation. my main reason for this method is simply because i don't feel comfortable just relying upon the safety with a chambered round in the shotgun. just my personal thoughts on the matter.
     
  10. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can not rack the shotgun unless you pull the trigger or hit the slide release. Some people keep the shotgun 1/2 racked with the chamber open. Just push the slide forward to chamber. No slide release or trigger pull needed.
    Mine is held to the wall with a magnet specifically designed to hold guns and it takes a good tug to get it loose. It isn't going to fall accidentally so I keep it chambered.
     
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  11. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    all of my pumps are loaded with the trigger released to they are always ready to be racked when needed.

    like i said. my method works well for my circumstances and as i mentioned, this is something i practice on regular basis, as well as the wife. it works well for us, in our situation and for out needs, but it may not be the best method for others. every situation and environment are different and people need to find what works the best for them. keeping one chambered with the safety on may be a better option for someone else given their circumstances and needs.

    in no way am i saying my way is the best way for everyone, just that is seems the best way for our needs with shotguns used for self defense. and to be honest, my shotguns are more likely to be used for four legged, and crawling intruders in the yard than two legged ones.

    just out of curiosity, what brand is your mount with the magnet? that sounds like something i might be interested in.
     
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  12. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tac-Mag gun magnet. They are $12 on Amazon.
    You have to use what you consider best for you. Same with what you load. I dont have kids in the house.
     
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  13. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    we have no kids in the house either, but the wife feels better if they aren't chambered. so i do my part to make sure she's happy! happy wife, equals a happy life! :)

    yes i agree. a person needs to find what works best for their unique situation and circumstances. a younger couple with a couple of kids living in the city, in an apartment would have way different requirements than the wife and i, an older couple living in a very rural area with no kids.
     
  14. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Talk to a firearms lawyer in CA, as they would know the law there far better than us. Now to address the bigger problem I spotted in your last post, the fact that we are A: talking about a 16 ga., and B: it's old enough to not accept 2.75 inch shells.

    You might be better served in your HD needs by spending the $200, and picking up a Steven's 320 Security instead, and hanging that old 16 ga on the wall, as A: 2.5 inch 16 ga shells are kind of hard to come by, as is 16 ga in general, when compared to 12 or 20 ga, and B: there just isn't going to be a large selection of HD rounds in 16 ga, especially with the 2.5 inch hinderance.

    If you find out it's legal to cut it down to 26 inches overall, with a barrel of 18 inches or more, I say go for it, and hang it on the wall for decor, with a CA compliant locking system, so no one steals it, loads a 2.745 inch shell in it, and injures them self while holding up a liquor store, as the state will find a way to somehow make that your fault.

    You can also look up the law for yourself, read and interpret it as you wish, and maybe be on the right side of it, but I personally would not want to risk having to listen to Folsom Prison Blues, while in Folsom Prison. It's much more enjoyable of a song from the outside of those walls.
     
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  15. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    great advice Mr. Kfox.

    another good suggestion would be the Mossberg Maverick Model 88. sometimes they can be bought new under $200 and are a solid performer.

    and i'd sure be very sure of the laws in California, as they tend to be way more restrictive than most other states and may have even stricter laws than the federal laws when it comes to legal length of the shotgun if a person decided to shorten it.

    i'd also check into the magazine restrictions on shotguns in California as well. they may not have any on tube fed magazines, but i'd check just to be 100% sure though. after all, it is California!

    and yes, songs about prison are much more enjoyable outside the walls of prison!
     
  16. AmPaTerry

    AmPaTerry Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    Just my three cents (inflation, you see) worth about warning -

    I faced a guy running toward my wife and I.
    I had a 12 gauge aimed at his belly and was yelling "STOP" at him, and he kept coming.
    I raised the barrel and put a blast over his head.
    He kept coming.
    I racked in another shell, and kept yelling that I WOULD SHOOT HIM -
    He kept coming.
    I started putting pressure on the trigger as I silently prayed for God to not make me kill this man -
    JUST before it went off, no more than six feet from me, he turned and ran the other direction.

    I later learned that he was alcohol impaired at the time, but not so much as to prevent him from driving, running and even going over barbed wire fences with just minor cuts to his hands.

    Now, this was in our front yard, ten feet from our door, and in the fading light of sunset.
    In a repeat of this, would I warn?
    Yes I would. I am far from a Liberal, but I have no burning desire to kill someone that I might not have to.
    Inside my house at 3 am?
    They are dead; no warning, no question, no regrets.
     
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  17. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards.

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    I think I agree in concept, except for the warning shot and waiting till 6 ft away. But our situations are probably different. I live in a development in town. A warning shot will impact houses across the street.
     
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  18. sheriffjohn

    sheriffjohn Active Member

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    When teaching at the Sheriff's Academy, I provided an assortment of confiscated firearms for the cadets to experiment with. A favorite was a sawed-off Ithaca 12 gauge double barrel with a 10 - inch barrel, cut off behind the pistol grip (double trigger). We never fired it with anything other than skeet loads and only volunteers tried it out. I don't recall anyone shooting it more than twice.

    Likewise, the Remington folding stock wasn't popular, either. The metal comb is brutal to the cheek and blasting away with only a pistol grip is not a good way to hit anything. A cylinder bore in a room-size area does not produce a huge pattern, so aiming is important.
     
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  19. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When I was on the swat team we tried several variants of the pistol grip shot guns and found them basically worthless in a tactical situation. VERY inaccurate and brutal on the shooter.
     
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  20. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    if i had the opportunity to try one before i bought a shotgun so equipped years ago, i would never have bought it in the first place. some people like them, but i don't care for them. i'd rather have better control over the recoil with a shoulder stocked shotgun, and would rather sacrifice the length for it.