Saiga 7.62x39 best for my needs?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by CHLChris, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I basically want a larger caliber (.30+) home defense long-arm. I already have a scoped AR in 5.56x45mm and a great shotgun.

    I've looked at:

    Springfield M1A...I just can't afford it right now
    M1 Garand...also too expensive, but not as bad as M1A
    Lever-action in .357mag or 30-30...lever gun has limited capacity
    Mosin of any type...bolt just not fast enough

    Then I looked at the Ruger Mini-30 in 7.62x39mm, but opinions of reliability don't inspire confidence.

    Last thing is that I really don't want a "tactical"-looking rifle for this one. That's why I've been ignoring the pistol-gripped AK's. What do y'all think of the Saiga rifle for my needs? They can be found for $300 now!!! I don't really care about huge magazines, either. Factory 10-rounders and 20-rounders would be just fine for this need.
     
  2. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    I have a saiga in x39,love it. You'll be hard pressed to find any AK type rifle with as good of a fit/finish than saigas. They come out of the same plant that produces AK variants for the Russian military. Also if You decide you want to convert it back to the origanally intended AK format then its only about $200 and an hour or two of your time for a really nice AK. I did my conversion by myself and anybody with decent mechanical skills can do it. Ill point you to the information you need to do it if you ever decide too.
     

  3. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    Also if you have any specific questions about them then ask away ill probably have your answer
     
  4. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Judging by what you've laid out for considerations, it sounds like the saiga is exactly what you need.
     
  5. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    Also I would reconsider a lever gun on account of the capacity issue, you CANNOT use a high cap magazine in a saiga without being in violation of 922r,any rifle that accepts a high cap magazines must have have a certain number of U.S. made parts and in order for saigas to meet that requirement you would have to do a conversion of some sort,on account of the fact that when imported they are completely foreign rifles. So I would take a second look at a lever gun in .357 since they are often found with 10 round magazine tubes,especially if you see a .357 wheelgun I'm your future.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2012
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    your goal is home defense .30cal dont do well in that role due to over penetration problems. if your looking at soviet i would consider the 5.45 chambering super cheap surplus and behaviour indoors is similar to the 5.56.

    the 7.62x39 and up is going to punch through your walls and the neighbors...

    then there is the drum-fed saiga 12. just something to consider
     
  7. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Do you mean 30-rounds? I wouldn't really want any more than a 10- or 20-rounder for this rifle. I don't mind buying factory Saiga magazines. There are a couple of compliant aftermarket manufacturers, too. If I felt that 30 rounds were necessary, I'd grab the AR.

    I'm thinking of those situations where behind the bad guy is just another bad guy. I'm thinking zombie hordes, not a prowler coming through my window. For most situations I'd be sticking to my pump-action shotgun or a handgun. I think it would take rioting in the streets for me to go to this weapon.

    Now, overpenetration is a really good reason to keep a lever gun in .357mag at the top of my list. Except Marlin is in hiatus on their 1894 series right now and the Rossi is just not my cup of tea.
     
  8. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    It may be that they consider the 20 Rounders hi-cap,or anything larger than 10 round mags. As that begins to fall out of the sporting category these saiga rifle fall in. Or it could be that its just the 30 round mags,when I'm next to a PC ill have a look for you to give you a definite answer.
     
  9. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I was thinking you had some new legal perspective or something, J. There are no limits about size of magazine for the Saiga or any other rifle, for that matter. I understand that there are certain laws that limit one's options for converting the Saiga. But those laws have nothing to do with magazine size, only the manner in which the magazine interacts with the rifle.

    I think a major difference between lever guns and a semi- is the moment of reloading. A lever gun takes a LOOOOOOOOT longer to reload than a magazine-fed semi-automatic.
     
  10. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    They're are worse guns that you could go to, as far as over penetration most guns will go through two or three rooms in your house easily. The 7.62X39 will go through several layers of dry wall like butter, for home defense I would get some soft points for two reason one is they're better for soft targets and two is because with the soft lead tip they might not go through your entire house.

    As far as the gun it's self, 30 rounds of 7.62X39, semi auto, reliable, a little long for CQB but over all not a bad gun really. If you had the money I would just try to find an AK47 or even an SKS, but they're are style of shooting you can use to shorten the profile of the gun without having to doing anything to gun itself.
     
  11. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    Your wrong about the magazine capacity issue

    What is 922R?
    Title 18 of the US Code (18 USC), Chapter 44 Section 922 provides guidance on unlawful acts as they relate to firearms. Section 922 Paragraph R states It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to-- (1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentati authorized by the Attorney General. "
    Most of us don't fall under those exceptions, so we are left to deal with meeting compliance with the law"Sporting" Purposes Here's where things get a little tricky. Some rifles, such as the Saiga line, are imported for sporting purposes in a particular configuration. Generally, that means that do not incorporate any of the "evil" features that are typically associated with so-called "semi-automatic assault weapons".* Chapter 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations Section 478.11 defines these SAWs. Specific examples of these features include- High capacity (greater than 10 round for rifles, 5 rounds for shotgun) magazines- Pistol grip attachment- Folding buttstock- Muzzle device/attachment (to include a threaded barrel capable of receiving a device)- Bayonanet lugs.

    With a stock unconverted saiga falling within these requirements,it would be ILLEGAL to use a magazine capable of holding over ten rounds. This limited magazine capacity is one of the features that gives the saiga rifle this sporting classification and allows them to be imported with no U.S. made parts


    You are on a slippery slope if you decide to use anything other than the factory ten round mags,or you can find you just four U.S. made parts and swap them out and not worry about it. I doubt this is a law the batfe will hunt you down over but I'd rather be compliant. That being said saigas are still great rifles
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  12. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Makes me wonder a little bit about about this rifle now. Thanks for keeping with your message, J!

    Oh well, 10-round mags may need to be my primaries until I switch out a part or 2 for US-made parts.

    The main reason I am rejecting a full-on AK-47 is because I was hoping to stay away from a pistol grip and the (I hate this term!!!) "assault rifle" look. My purpose for this rifle is to have some major firepower but look less threatening if I'm walking around my neighborhood in a WROL situation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  13. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    No problem. And about not wanting to attract anymore attention than the next gun-weilding Joe in a WROL situation,I would say a saiga can fill that role but in my head a good .357 levergun would do it much better. You have 10 rounds of .357 on hand, and with a little training and practice I'm sure you could build enough familiarity with the gun to get the tube topped off in a hurry,and i would imagine in most prolonged gun-fights there are usually lulls in combat in which to do this.

    Not to mention that the .357 magnum really shines out of those longer rifle barrels,I've heard some standard loads and most all hot loads can achieve 1800 fps or more out of a levergun. That's a lot of firepower in a gun that looks like any hunters 4-shot 30-30 deer gun.
     
  14. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    Also you need a total of 4 U.S. made parts to be 922r complaint for use with full capacity mags,this can be achieved with a new fire control group (which counts as 3) And a new stock or forend.

    I also just remembered that they make saiga 30-rounders that are entirely U.S. manufactured so those mags actually count for 3 922r compliant parts when inserted into the rifle (follower,spring,and baseplate I believe) and when using these mags all that would be needed to be legal would be one U.S. made part on the actual rifle. A new forend would cheaply and effectivly accomplish this without altering the rifles look substantially.


    So now that I recalled that little fact I think both a saiga and a levergun would do you well in filling this particular niche.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  15. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Truthfully, I really want BOTH a Saiga and a Marlin. My main question is which should come first? A big benefit of the .357 lever gun is that I could also fire my .38spl's. The big difference for where I sit right now is that the Saiga is about half the price.

    Yep, my research (after your posts sparked me to look further into the issue) is that one single US part plus using a US-made magazine is all that's needed to fulfill 922r compliance. I didn't really want to believe it at first because those compliance rules really bump up hard against my leave-my-liberty-alone sensibilities!!
     
  16. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

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    Yea same here,it really is a stupid law. They're basically saying that a gun made outside the U.S. is more "evil" than the same gun made here. But anywho I choose to get a saiga first and convert it since I don't have an ar-15 or other homeland defense style rifle,and am now on the lookout for a good deal on a .357 Marlin or even a Rossi.
     
  17. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    Saiga probably not gonna be my rifle...

    There was a man in the Salem area of Oregon who shot his 7.62x39mm AK-47 while cleaning it. Oooooops. Went through a bunch of walls.

    Here's the story.

    I think I am going to stick to a lever-action .357mag. 9+1 is still pretty good. .357mag from an 18" barrel is still more than 1000 ft-lbs. but won't go through as many walls...
     
  18. Cattledog

    Cattledog New Member

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    the saiga .410 would be a good home defense as even the .410 buck shot would be pretty slow after going through a wall. The after market mags go up to 15 (surefire) from what ive seen. 410 buck or defense rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger with light recoil....nasty. http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx
     
  19. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    I think the simplicity of the pump action is what I'll be going for when needed. The Saiga 12-gauge looks really fun, but not really what I would use for this need. I still want something that will go 50 yards+ and hold in one piece the whole way. I suppose slugs would do that, but then that's not what the PDX1 round is all about, now is it?

    Cattledog...I love to see supporting members that have such a young post count. Thanks for your voice! And from PDX, no less. Awesome!