Saiga .308... dented shells?

Discussion in 'AK & SKS Discussion' started by AKCoastie89, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. AKCoastie89

    AKCoastie89 New Member

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    My Saiga .223 rifle tends to dent the casings when it ejects them, making reloading the casings impossible. This doesn't bother me because i don't reload .223, but i was planning on buying the same gun in .308 caliber. Does anyone know if the Saiga .308 has the same problem?
     
  2. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    It would have to dent the brass a lot to make reloading "impossible". My HK and CETME both put pretty good dents on the case bodies and mouth. The cases reload w/o any problems. If the mouth is dented badly enough that the expander ball will not fit in, use needle nose pliers to get it back close to round and the die will fix the rest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2009

  3. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    I reload all my ammo,and it is a hassle with the Saiga 223 denting the brass. I also have a Kel-tec PLR16 223 pistol that is hard on brass too. My easy fix was to just shoot the cheap Wolf steel cased ammo out of both guns. Both guns are mainly used for just plinking at targets,so match grade ammo isn't needed. I haven't ever shot a Saiga in 308 but I would figure their accuracy is on par with the 223 and not a tac driver,just by the cheap stuff and shoot away.Leave your good ammo for your accurate guns,and then you won't have to mess with fixing dented up brass.
    I'm not saying that Saiga's or Kel-tecs aren't accurate,I just have many others that will put them to shame.
     
  4. crockett007

    crockett007 New Member

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    I assume you are talking about dents in the case neck? aside from lowering the life of the brass, you should be able to get away with a couple of trips through the sizing die before they split. The quality of the cases would probably determine how much mileage you would get out of them. As to the .308 question, I'm afraid I have no first hand experience. I only know that every Saiga I have seen at the range dents the heck out of the cases, no matter what the caliber.
     
  5. JohnnyEl777

    JohnnyEl777 New Member

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    I have the same problem.

    I just bought one and I have the very same problem. The dent is deep and on the casing, NOT the neck.
     
  6. MrGrumpy89

    MrGrumpy89 Member

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    I have a wasr 10 7.62x39 cal. I've noticed my brass would sometimes get dents lower than the neck too, also some brass I've collected had the dents. I think the cause of the dents is when the case ejects it ejects with much power (and if you shoot at a gun range) it hits a corner of your booth and gets dented. I have wanted to reload for some time now and starting to collect 7.62 brass for when I start. Thanks to for answering my question on if I can reload the semi dented brass. I have found some major dented brass that I probably should not reload.
     
  7. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I also have a WASR in 7.62x39 but it does not dent the brass or steel cases. Don't know if that's unusual or not since I haven't checked what other AKs or Saigas do. Thought I'd mention it since that indicates there should be a fix for the problem. I will say it seems my WASR has a real soft and slow bolt recoil compared to others I've seen. Must be a real strong recoil spring I guess or something diferent about the gas pressure. It always ejects the casing and strips off a new round reliably but when watching someone else shoot it the bolt cycling almost looks like it's in slow motion!
     
  8. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    My Mini-14 does the same thing...a little dent caused in the ejection of the spent casing. I've saved all my brass for reloading as it didn't seem severe enough to cause an issue.

    Besides, you never know when you'll need the brass!!
     
  9. Schneiderman

    Schneiderman New Member

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    You can reload dented brass. At worst maybe you won't get as much life out of them.

    I have seen a product on the market to prevent dented brass, it's some kind of rubber stopper that goes on the dust cover. I have also heard of people installing rubber moldings or weatherstripping or cutting the dust cover where the brass hits. It's an AK... identify the problem and you can probably fix it with a hammer.
     
  10. MrGrumpy89

    MrGrumpy89 Member

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    I shot my wasr in the open with no both. it ejects nearly 7 feet. the dents could be the ejection power then hitting a hard object, such as a wall. although when I shot in the open, it was a good 2 years ago so I could not recover my brass to see if it left dents.
     
  11. Josey Wales '94

    Josey Wales '94 New Member

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    We have a .308 Saiga. I was surprised when I looked at the brass and it was dented. But I talked to a couple of guys and they said that many of the semi military type rifles ding the brass. Well I guess I shouldnt say brass, it was steel cased Silver Bear, and it dented. So yeah its probably gonna dent:rolleyes:
     
  12. joechristensen

    joechristensen New Member

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    Go to the auto parts store and get yourself some of the car door trim that goes in between your door and the door jam. This helps to prevent dings to make reloading more comfortable.
     
  13. Mannster

    Mannster New Member

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    Hillbilly, I had read that the Keltec doens't do well with steel cased ammo. Sounds like you have had no problems with it tho, is that right? After reading that, I've been shooting only brass but would prefer to shoot steel.
     
  14. Brokenfeather

    Brokenfeather New Member

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    308 saiga case dents

    Yes it does. I posted this same question on the Saiga forum and was told it is common and was cased in my case by the dust shield upon ejection for the empty. I haven't asked this question yet, but I'm wondering if I really want to get rid of the dings if I could slowly remove material from the shield till it stops.
    here is a photo of the dings I'm getting.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  15. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    A lot of FAL guys had this problem with their rifles and they fixed the problem fairly easily with nothing but a file and a couple of empty shells and duct-tape.
    The issue on denting brass is the rate of spin the ejector forces on them. I'm not talking about the claw on the bolt face, obviously, I'm talking about that piece of metal that catches the edge of the brass as its pulled back by the extractor and is kicked out by it the protruding metal. Most ejectors are stamped steel,
    The basic concept is to lightly tape duct tape to the area suspected of denting the brass and put an empty shell into the chamber and rack the bolt as hard as you can to simulate the gun kicking out a shell to create the denting on the duct tape. Then, with a file, file off (very carefully I might add) the metal towards the outside of the reciever in a 90 degree fashion relevant to the base of the rifle. This will make the brass eject in a slower spin the closer you make the contact point, that meets the case each time, more towards the inside of the case. Filing the upper or lower edge of the ejector will effect the brass's path on its vertical plane of movement.

    This is a shortened tip to how to fix the problem, but there is a detailed guide on fixing a FAL's ejector angle that can generally be applied to AK rifle ejectors.
    This is the link to the guide-- FNFAL RIFLE EJECTOR ANGLE / ELIMINATING RECIEVER BRASS STRIKES
    This same guy also tells you how to widen the rails of the reciever on an FAL, it worked sort of for me but I KNOW the ejector guide works because I did it myself.
     
  16. Brokenfeather

    Brokenfeather New Member

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    I've read this a couple of times now and looked at the pictures and I'm still a bit confused. I believe you are suggestion that the metal piece that actually forces the empty away from the bolt face as it comes back after firing needs to be shortened to prevent it from kicking it out with as much force. Yes? The pictures were of no help what so ever but that is because I have never seen the inside of that weapon. Really only sure that I was looking at the rails. I appreciate your input.
    Thanks
    Don
     
  17. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    No, dont shorten it, change the actual contact point of the ejector that touches the shells. If you shorten the ejector too much it wont give you reliable ejection. A few passes of a file on the right spot can do the job I was describing. You want to change the contact point to be more toward the inside of the reciever's center-line that way the shells dont eject as violently and dent on the dust cover. The more the contact point is toward the left side of the reciever the faster and more violent the casing's spin will be which is making them get dented.
    I could show you easier than I can describe it through text. If you still dont understand, let me know and I'll see if I can find an easier way to show you.
     
  18. Brokenfeather

    Brokenfeather New Member

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    Picture for you to use

    Here is a picture of the weapon in question. If you can down load it and draw on it and repost great.
     

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  19. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

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    Sorry for the lag in response time, I've been busy but I'll do you one better than a picture. Remember you take responsibility if you wish to work on your own guns. I'm merely here for advice and informational purposes :D

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXuv4-5GEBA]YouTube - Saiga 308 Ejector adjustment.[/ame]

    Your ejector looks much more curved than mine and with a wider diameter base on the brass doing this will have a more apparent changes with small portions of metal being removed as you go.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  20. Brokenfeather

    Brokenfeather New Member

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    Thanks and picture

    Ruzai, I want to give you a big thank you for the time you spent putting together the video. I have put up another picture with some drawing on it to show what I believe you were indicating.
    Thanks again
    Don
     

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