Saiga .308 Accuracy Not bad for an AK

Discussion in 'AK & SKS Discussion' started by Darth AkSarBen, Sep 27, 2009.

  1. Darth AkSarBen

    Darth AkSarBen Member

    113
    0
    16
    I hear a lot of talk about the AK not being a reliable weapon for close groups and accuracy. Bull. If you are shooting cheap ammo, steel case then I suppose 3" groups are the norm at 100 yards. I have bot the .223 Saiga and the .308 Saiga, that are converted back. I reload and recently shot a 3 shot one hole group with the .223 at 100 yards. The Saiga .308 Winchester (7.62 X 51) is also an excellent rifle in accuracy. Plus, it has very good knock down. My rifle seems to like the 150 gr to 130 gr bullets the best. Shot at a Pizza Hut box bottom the other evening, at 100 yards, 5 shot group. Thought I was missing the black dot I painted on it. Used Remington PSP Core-LOKT 150 bullets I got at Dunham's for $14.99 a box . They are pretty good for factory ammo.

    [​IMG]

    and a target with some hand loads.
    [​IMG]

    I'm working with Hodgdon Benchmark powder as it is a faster burning powder than the BLC-2 or the H335 powders or Hodgdon Varget. With a 16" barrel on the .308 and a 1:12 twist I am trying to maximize the burn rate so that all the powder gets burned up before leaving the muzzle to create flash.
     
  2. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

    5,549
    0
    0
    Nice shooting! Saigas are really nice shooters.
     

  3. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

    5,250
    0
    0
    Darth,

    I know about nothing regarding AK's. What do you mean when you say "converted back" and does that affect accuracy at all?
     
  4. Darth AkSarBen

    Darth AkSarBen Member

    113
    0
    16

    Well, When a Saiga is imported into the U.S. it is of a hunting/sporting type configuration. They moved the trigger back and used a sort of wishbone affair to release the sear from the hammer. Original AK have a trigger near the magazine release, and are more balanced. Here is a picture of one as it is imported, and stock:
    [​IMG] This image is found here: Russian American Armory

    My Saiga with some changes to the furniture (butt stock and fore grip, but the trigger group not yet moved forward, but still in it's original position:
    [​IMG]

    Notice the fire control group (trigger/sear) are still at the rear further away from the magazine latch, which is where they are originally) The collapsible butt stock has a pistol grip that attaches directly to it, via big screw, rather than to the rifle's receiver.

    Same rifle after conversion, which entials removing a false floor plate that covers the original holes for the Pistol Grip Nut, and where the trigger would go. They rivet this floor plate on at the factory and give it the look of the sports rifle. Once the bottom plate is removed it exposes the new PG hole (square) where a regular PG nut fits through the receiver and the Pistol Grip attaches to it. And also exposes the hole where the trigger originally goes.

    [​IMG]

    It does improve accuracy as there is no wish bone affair and the hammer and sear can be polished before assembling. AND it give better control of the trigger let off, and the rifle is more balanced now. The fire control group is moved foward, and a new hole I drilled in the left over trigger guard actualy fits right under that magazine latch. The PG bolts directly to the receiver.

    Go here: Saiga .223 AK Conversion - 1 and you see it page by page how the Saiga is converted back into the AK that is hidden under the imported sportsterized version.
     
  5. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

    825
    0
    0
    WOW!! Not a big AK fan, but, if you can get groups like that and still be able to drag it through the mud, I might have to get me one of those. Has anybody shot the one chambered for the 7.62X39? I think if someone had one like that and it shot as good as the groups above, that would make one hard to beat semi-auto deer rifle. I am going to look onto them, when the funds get rebuilt from some AR work.

    :eek:Should I have said anything about an AR on the AK page?:eek: Sorry if I offended someone:D
     
  6. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

    1,015
    0
    0
    I really doubt that you could get that kind of accuracy out of the 7.62x39. It's just not nearly as accurate of a round as the .308 is.

    -Fred
     
  7. lpalmer80

    lpalmer80 New Member

    6
    0
    0
    I'd bet good money you could that kind of accuracy if you used the new Hornady loads!!!
     
  8. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

    825
    0
    0
    I will be finding out in a few days. I found one that I am going to run a few different types of bullets through. I forgot that my wifes uncle has several, so I'm going to go shoot his with quality ammo. I will let you all know what kind of accuracy it will get. I know there are a few companies that make 7.62X39 ammo for deer hunting. I am going to buy some of that and see what happens.

    And I have seen 7.62X39 get excellent accuracy out of a bolt action Ruger. I don't think it is as much the round as it is the firearms it is chambered for...
     
  9. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

    1,015
    0
    0
    I don't know too much about the round as I haven't shot it all that much, but here is what JD had to say on it in another thread about AR's chambered in it:

    -Fred
     
  10. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

    1,680
    0
    0
    Wow. After looking at that Saiga I might have to reconsider my next choice for an AK variant.

    As far as the accuracy of the 7.62 x 39. When it was designed it was meant for accuracy not beyond what was needed. I still think the accuracy issue of the AK 47 is a bit overblown. If you can get consistent hits in 8"-12" groups with in 100-150 yards with the firepower the AK provides, that's good enough for me.

    The first time I took out my Romanian I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of adjustment needed to zero at 25 yards as well as the results from 100 yards. You hear all the horror stories of the frequency of a canted front sight and difficulty in adjusting windage w/o damaging the weapon. But I experienced none of this.

    However, my buddy picked up a Chi-Com for a hundred bucks a few years back and after zeroing at 25 yards (if you want to call it that) we couldn't hit a thing at 100 yards. Don't know what the problem was, or cared really.
     
  11. Darth AkSarBen

    Darth AkSarBen Member

    113
    0
    16
    Why worry about 7.62 x 39 when you can get it in .308 Winchester. THAT round is a sure bet for deer.
    You see the shots above on the targets at 100 yards by the .308. Should make for an excellent brush gun for deer hunting.
     
  12. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

    825
    0
    0
    I think that the 7.62X39 would be a great round for deer with an accurate firearm. I think that it would be excellent for youth or women hunters that may not be able to put the .223 round exactly where it is needed with that small of a projectile. I would feel a lot better about my son shooting a deer with a 7.62X39 than I would with a .223 even though he can put five shots in a inch at 100 yards.

    And with the Saiga being a semi-auto firearm, he would have a quick follow up shot if he missed or the deer was injured very badly and was not moving too quick out of the field.

    Not too mention, in the part of Kentucky where I am from, a 100 yard shot is about the max that is needed, and the 7.62X39 excells in that area.

    This is just my opinion though, please don't bash my thoughts too much.
     
  13. Laufer

    Laufer New Member

    243
    0
    0
    The Saiga 7.62x39 is listed on the "Classicarms.inc" website, based in Indian Trail, NC.

    You can probably get a better deal at a gun show, saving the FFL/shipping fees. They were at the Memphis show in November, After the election, at a decent price.

    I envy you folks in north TX and south OK who can hunt feral pigs.
    A large pig was killed by a single shot of jhp x39 from an SKS, and the close-up color photos of the nasty deep wound were persuasive as to the round's effectiveness. Don't remember the range of the shot.

    Maybe herds of wild pigs will migrate in the near future from central Tennessee closer towards Fayette County, near Memphis, even Shelby County. Can only hope.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  14. Darth AkSarBen

    Darth AkSarBen Member

    113
    0
    16
    Casey, if your son can shoot a .223 and put 5 ronds inside an inch group, don't worr about taking a deer with it, especially at 100 yards or less. Center of neck line, about 1 foot down from the head.
     
  15. 1BIGGUN

    1BIGGUN New Member

    7
    0
    0
    I hunt deer with a AK pistol in 7.62x39 and have taken 5 in the last 3 seasons with it. including a pair of bucks at 225 yards. at 200 yards I didnt get muck expansion form the hornady soft points I was using and at that range you are really pushing it. I did get the deer but it could have been a better wound channel and a faster kill. it took a second shot on one.

    I use a AK pistols with 12 or 16" barrels in a pistol /shot gun only zone in WI. it allows me a follow up shot a encore or other single shot pistol dosent have and it gives me a good out to 175 yard range. It shoots a 1" group BTW and is scoped. Im working on a 308 pistol as well as a .444 wildcat. all the pistols picutred will shoot under 1.5" groups the AMD version will shot under 1" at 100 yards on a good day.

    I have a 308 Saiga and I cant get those groups with any of my loads. It getting turned ito a 260 remington target build this winter. it will look some thing like this when done. this is my 223 varmit AK that will shoot under .5" 100 yard groups. here is a ling to some of the details of it.

    LINK>>>>>>> ACCURIZING THE AK - Gunco.net
     

    Attached Files:

  16. doctherock

    doctherock New Member

    5,132
    1
    0
    Darth, what kind of money do you have tied up i the 308. It looks great. Almost picked a stock one up today.
     
  17. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

    5,549
    0
    0
    The 7.62x39 commercial hunting ammo is way more consistent and accurate than any of the milsurp types.

    I have a Saiga 7.62x39 and it made great hits out to 400 the one time I took it out.
    My CZ527 shoots great with commercial ammo, and mediocre with several milsurps.
     
  18. Ruzai

    Ruzai New Member

    546
    1
    0
    I'll be testing my WASR-10 with handloads as soon as I get a hold of my Lee Turret press. I've zeroed it in at 100 yards with steel cased Wolf ammo but I'm not happy with groups and will be trying some brass casings because I know they make a more uniform gas-seal with the chamber of the AK.
    Hopefully I'll get a chance to try some factory brass cased ammo the next time I'm at the range this next week.

    I've considered the Saiga .308 before but I never saw any of the newer ones with the trigger group moved up and balanced correctly so I never baught one.
     
  19. Pjj342

    Pjj342 New Member

    206
    0
    0
    I converted a saiga 7.62x39 and its plenty accurate for deer. I consistantly get 2" groups at 100yds with crappy wolf, tula and bear ammo. Im quite sure it would do better with some winchester or remington, but since I cant hunt with it in PA, I havent paid more than 5bucks for a box of 20, ever. Someday I will build up the courage to spend two or three times what I pay now, to see if my groups improve. Ill bet they will.

    Ruzai, there are a ton of guys who have converted their saiga 308s. Check out the Saiga12 forum, they have a section just for the 308 rifle. Anyhow, I wanted one too, but the mags are expensive as hell, and there are none or very few milsurp options. Im a cheap ass without much money and it wasnt economical. But for hunting not SHTF, go for it (unless you can afford the mags).

    Moving the trigger forward will run you 100-200 extra dollars, depending what kind of buttstock and pistol grip you want. The pistol grip conversion (FCG conversion) is easy. The saiga 308 uses the same buttstock, pistol grip and fire control group as the usual ak uses. All saiga conversions need is parts and easy to find tools.
     
  20. Darth AkSarBen

    Darth AkSarBen Member

    113
    0
    16
    Ruzai, here you go for one that was converted so that the trigger group was moved forward. I this this myself.
    http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/guns/saiga_308_converted.jpg[/mg]

    It shot great groups as well. I, unfortunately, sold it to get enough funds available to get into an AR-15 in 6.8 SPC II chambering. Great round, that 6.8 x 43, and I've really enjoyed this rifle.