Safety issues with living in an apartment..

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by bas1990, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. bas1990

    bas1990 New Member

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    Hello, I live in a apartment building im on the top floor, back left corner, so i have others living to my left and front of my apartment. Its also a brick building so I am not so worried about the outside walls. The neighborhood I live in is pretty bad and there are alot of break ins, and if someone breaks in with a gun I dont think my knives that are randomly around my house and my mma will cut it. I like the masterpiece arms 45 cal carbine rifle with laser sites. My question is, is that a safe round the fire if my place ever was broken into. If not whats is the safest round, has to be for a rifle or handgun thats considered a rifle by the law because I am not 21.

    Thanks I hope you guys can help.

    -Bruce
     
  2. biff44

    biff44 New Member

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    Despite what the hollywood movies show, it is difficult to hit an intruder with a handgun! Unless you have access to a good range, and can practice a couple times a month (ie $ for ammo!), you are much better off with a shotgun. Maybe some turkey shot for cartridges, won't penetrate the walls as much. Just make sure it is a legal shotgun (at least 18" barrel length, and at least 26" overall length). Just get a regular one with a standard stock--avoid the ones that are pistol grip only, as you will not be able to handle the recoil.
     

  3. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    I think this may have been posted before, but this site provides some interesting testing of penetration with various weapons and ammo.

    Box o'Truth

    The test I've linked shows some testing with a shotgun with different loads. Buckshot and slugs are shown to penetrate walls pretty effectively, lighter weight shot not so well. Problem is, there are reports that birdshot is not that effective in a home defense situation. YMMV.
     
  4. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    I agree with Biff, alot of practice is needed to get profecient with a pistol. You're much better of with a shotgun, plus not being 21 you can't buy a pistol or pistol ammo anyway. You can however buy a shotgun and shells for it at 18 or older. I would go with #4 shot or bigger, 4 shot will do a lot of damage at close range but more than likely won't penetrate through multiple walls like a big fat heavy slug will. If you have to use a pistol, I would go with hollow points which open up when they hit a flesh and bone target reducing thier ability to fly right through your target. Also frangible ammunition is used to police officers in certain locations because when they hit something hard like a wall, they turn to dust.

    Also if you're only gonna use your shotgun for home defense I would get something with a barrel length of around 18 inches. I have a NEF Pardner Protector in 12 gauge with an 18" barrel and no choke. At about 20 feet with "00" buck the shot pattern is about 16 inches wide. With a pattern like that in an apartment, you can't miss. Your attacker will go down, with very little fight.

    Also, this gun is not strictly a home defense gun, I often use it for hunting. I shoot slugs through it all the time and I even use it for rabbit and squirrel hunting.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2009
  5. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Also, bas, shotgun ammo is a lot easier on the wallet. You can go to Wal-Mart in most areas of the country and get 12 gauge shells for less than $15 for a box of 25.
     
  6. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    I watched best defense on vs. channel and they showed 00buck penetrating through 4 walls and keept on going, just like the 9mm and .45. I think turkey or lighter would be best so as not to over penetrate.

    Shotgun over pistol all the way, but you can get frangible rounds for your pistol.
     
  7. Seanml89

    Seanml89 New Member

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    I have this same problem with picking out my fist gun. Does anyone know about these glaser safety slugs? Their website doesnt say much about dry wall or sheetrock penetration
     
  8. sgtdeath66

    sgtdeath66 New Member

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    i love the shotgun for hd. it has the sound of the racking action that ill have the scare tactic and if that doesnt deter the suspect from advancing than you have the best stopping power. also 12ga bird shot will drop anyone and not over penetrate in your apartment. just my .02
     
  9. McNabb11b

    McNabb11b New Member

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    Even if you don't kill someone with bird shot, it will pretty well take away their want to play. Also they will spend several grueling hours in the hospital having little balls of lead plucked from their body with tweasers. Not to mention the scarring to let anyone know what happened in the future. The other plus side of a shotgun is that the wound generally is next to impossible to sew back up, even more so than a regular single projectile because the wound is often irregular.
     
  10. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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  11. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Considering recent rumblings regarding ammunition regulation, it might be smarter to buy a weapon that uses "sporting ammo" like a shotgun. Also, buckshot is far from cheap, especially compared to some #7 target loads.

    Just think if Cheney had been using buckshot on that bird hunt; that would've been rough (not to mention very impractical).
     
  12. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Jeff Cooper said that if you hit the person you are shooting at, he will slow or stop the bullets, so you won't have to worry as much about hitting innocent bystanders .

    The best gun for home defense is a handgun. Good ones cannot go off from being dropped, have heavy enough triggers and are safe to keep loaded . They can be operated with one hand while the other hand holds a phone or flashlight . They are hard to snatch away and easy to maneuver in a house . You can easily shoot them while lying in bed !

    The best system is a handgun backed by a long gun . Good choices include the double-barreled side-by-side coach guns as well as pump guns . Even rifles like the AK and ARs can work well. The idea is to have heavy artillery for when you can bring it into play because handguns lack stopping power .
    Don't get all excited about racking the action to scare away the intruder ; the sound may just pinpoint your location for him and let him know you are armed ( TMI ).

    Focus on the key factors. Don't get caught up worrying about what gun may over-penetrate , make a loud bang , look bad in court etc .
     
  13. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    If you have more pellets or bb's in the load you'll be much more likely to hit your target than with a 9mm,.40,or .45. There's no question about that.

    No advantage there over a shotgun. Shotguns fit all that criteria plus some.

    That's one advantage, the one hand thing, but not enough to sway my opinion on home defense over shotguns.

    How are handguns good for home defense if they lack stopping power? The rest throws the one hand defense out the window.


    Could be, but more than likely the intruder(s) will be scared senseless.

    On the contrary, I think the rounds penetration should be considered deeply before selecting ammunition or gun types for home defense.
     
  14. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    Learn to shoot. Get a high-capacity rifle. Don't miss.
     
  15. jethredge

    jethredge New Member

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    I would think the "shotgun advice you're getting is on the mark in my humble opinion;

    also- I believe the police / military have ammo that is designed to stop / knockdown an assailant without killing innocent passer-by's (i.e. when it hits the body the bullet breaks apart).

    Don't remember the name but will ask my nephew- MD State Police Officer, he says their entry teams use it.....

    Regards,
    John
     
  16. Seanml89

    Seanml89 New Member

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    That could be true for a 60 year old who has been shooting since he was 15, but nobody knows how they will react until they are in that position and thats an actual fact.

    But think of apartment set up, somebody could have their couch against the wall that your front door is on. They could be sitting RIGHT against the other side of the wall your shooting twords
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  17. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    To clarify :
    What I proposed as ideal was a handgun backed up by a long gun. The advantage of this system is that you can have more stopping power if you can bring the long gun into play . If you can't get to your heavy artillery, the handgun is -er- handier . If your long gun goes dry, your handgun is the fastest reload in the world when you transition to it .

    My understanding is that some shotguns and rifles can fire from being dropped .
    Shotguns do not have much of a spread at close range so you still need to aim .

    Bird shot can be soaked up by belly fat or a beefy biceps . Heavy clothing can slow it down . The best shotgun load would be buck or a slug .

    If you are ever threatened or have reason to be especially alert, you can carry your handgun in a holster around the house . The long gun will be in the closet upstairs regardless of where you happen to be .

    Years ago, in Virginia, a police sniper used an AR-15 instead of a .308 to shoot a hostage-taker in the back because he thought the .308 might endanger innocents by over-penetration . The AR-15 .223 failed to incapacitate the hostage-taker right away . The bad guy killed his hostage, a cop , with a sawed-off 12 guage and managed to pump a fresh shell into it before he died . That is an example of what can happen when you focus on secondary considerations like over-penetration .

    Rentacop

    " They said they'd take us without firin' a shot ;
    I dont know if they will or not ;
    But only me and crippled soldiers give a damn . "
    From " Me And Crippled Soldiers ", sung by Merle Haggard, used without permission of Epic Records
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  18. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    That's why you don't miss...
     
  19. GatorDude

    GatorDude New Member

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    I would suggest getting a Charley Bar to by yourself some time if somebody is trying to get in. We generally barricaded our door at night with one and it seemed to work pretty well. Even if it forced someone to kick our door multiple times, it would raise a ruckus and buy us time to get a gun and rack a slide.

    Product Review: Master Lock Dual Function Door Security Bar - Associated Content

    As for rounds to use, it sounds like you are shooting a carbine. You'll gain velocity due to the increased barrel length. To tone it down a bit, I would think hollowpoints or safety slugs might be a good idea. I have some information on the amount of velocity you gain with a carbine versus a pistol here:

    An Introduction to Short Rifles - Associated Content

    As always though, I'm just a dude on the internet. So you'll want to keep researching.
     
  20. TelstaR

    TelstaR New Member

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    My home defense weapon of choice will always be a 12ga shotgun loaded with #1 Buck (16 pellets), period.

    Back up HD weapon will be a S&W Model 10 38Special in the nightstand.

    In any home defense situation, you want time to be on your side. If someone wants in, they will get in but the point is to make it as diffucult and time intensive as possible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009