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Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by DrewNJNC, Feb 2, 2012.
Gander Mtn has these for $650. Would you buy it? Why or why not?
Can you be more specific on which model it is? Or provide a link?
I received that flier yesterday as well. I can't remember what model it was but I believe it was the Sport. It doesn't have a forward assists or dust cover. I threw it away but give me a second.
Saw it today. It was the Sport. I'm building one using a better PSA upper for about the same price.
My thoughts exactly though SW's Shot Show reveals are very interesting.
I haven't seen much on the Shot Show yet.
What's the scuttlebutt coming out of Smith?
They've teamed up w/ Magpul, Kyle Lamb, and seem to be making improvements in their overall quality.
Certain people, that don't understand the "Chart" or why others insist on demanding quality, talk a lot of "just as good as" crap but it seems that the lower end AR manufacturers are starting to listen and are stepping up. It's great for the consumer. It helps drive prices down and quality up.
Scott, here's a recent thread with links...
It is nice to see S&W step up to the plate. Adding Kyle Lamb, more Magpul and midlength gas are smart moves.
If I had to spend $650 on the sport I would rather spend $600 w/ shipping on this and build the lower your self
You can buy a BCM UPPER from Bravo Company for $400. Get a BCM Lower built by Grant at G&R Tactical for $280-$469 depending what options you go with.
This is a way better rifle than the S&W M &P. Just my .02 worth and the direction I would go.
The forward assist was added to the M16 for good reason. I would not own an AR without one.
Thanks all, just checking.
I was looking to get one. Is it worth it?
I used to feel this very way, my M4 had one so it must be necessary. After doing a little more research I'm not so sure anymore.
I hear that the FA only make malfunctions worse.
And you hear this where? On the air soft forum perhaps?
My opinion was formed during my 6 years of Infantry service, most of which spent shouldering the M16A2.
Put enough rounds through a direct gas impingement upper and you will need the forward assist. The only way the FA could contribute to a malfunction would be if you somehow inadvertently depressed if while the rifle was cycling. I've put many thousands of rounds through this platform and can't imagine a plausable situation for this to be of any concern.
I was an 11B as well. We used the M4 though.
For one if the round won't seat there is obvious something wrong. Forcing a round into the chamber can increase the seriousness of the problem. Plus did you know that there is a cut out in the bolt itself designed for seating the bolt should it not do so properly?
Most of my research is done on other sites, one that is frequented by industry professionals and professionals of the secret squirrel variety.
Not saying I think it is unnecessary but... I don't remember the last time I used the FA on any of my filthy Ar's to correct a malfunction. I don't even remember using one while enlisted other than practicing malfunction drills.
What reasons make you demand a FA?
When was the last time you used the FA to correct a malfunction?
Don't get me wrong BCMJunkie, if I had plenty of money a Bravo Company AR-15 would certainly be in my arms inventory. They make very good rifles, but to be fair you need to point out the $400 BCM Upper you are talking about comes without a bolt, charging handle or handguards. That would add another $250 to the costs of the rifle at a minimum to obtain those items.
I did plenty of research before buying my AR and while I really liked the BCM's, I couldn't find a complete rifle for less than $1,000, even if I boughtout the parts separately and put them together myself.
For a starter rifle the S&W AR's at $650 seem like a good place to start for the average plinker who just wants something to play with at the range. People who have them report that they work just fine.
It was our 3rd live fire trip up the hill and I had topped off my second combat load of the day so I'd estimate roughly 400 rounds through the rifle at that point. On my first mag change, the bolt failed to seat. A quick tap on the FA corrected the problem and range was completed without further incident.
I'll concede that few civilians will fire enough between cleaning to ever need the FA. I also recognize that new developments such as stainless steel and chrome plated bolts/bolt carrier groups and piston upper further reduce the necessity of the FA...BUT...DGI + Lots of Rounds + High Humidity can and will gum the chamber to the point of needing the FA.
I'm now on my second DGI M4 upper "having worn out the first one" over 8 years and lots of rounds. The shorter gas system in the M4 platform puts much more unburned crud into the BCG than the longer A2 ever did, further adding to the value of the FA.
To me, the FA is the same principle as a condom. It's much better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
Having actually needed it myself, I don't much care what the industry guys pushing a product or the "internet secret squirrel society" has to say about it.
My .02 Cents.
There are good arguments on both sides for the forward assist and I can't argue with Tack's condom analogy. But when it really counts (i.e. the worst possible moment) you can forcibly jam a defective or dirty cartridge into the chamber that won't come out with normal clearing. So it's dreaded cleaning rod time. Training today leans toward keeping the hands off the FA and instead rack the action to get a fresh cartridge chambered. There are times the FA may be handy but very little force should be applied.
I think most of us agree we want it but rarely use it.
If the M4 makes the likelihood of needing the FA then wouldn't I have needed it more often than you?
W/ the possibility of an FA causing greater problems by jamming a round into the chamber wouldn't just ejecting that round and chambering a new one be better. If you play the odds I'd think so.
I agree w/ "better have it and not need it" theory completely. After all, all my uppers have FA.
There's a lot to be said about quality lubricant.