Rumor or fact? BATF Classifies .223 as a pistol cartridge?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Yunus, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    I've seen this floating around on blogs and a few ammunition websites. However I've not seen anything official from the ATF. Does anyone have a link to the official ATF ruling that this is referencing or has anyone heard about this? I'm trying to understand what this would mean.

    BATF Classifies .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC as Pi

    All I see on the internet so far is fear and conjecture. It would be nice to have some facts as well.
     
  2. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is a prohibition on owning pistol caliber ammo that is capable of penetrating certain body armor. This is why the Chinese made steel core 7.62x39 ammo was banned from import: There was no problem with the stuff until someone chambered a pistol in 7.62x39.

    Evidently that companies bullets in those calibers are capable of penetrating some kind of body armor. i am familiar with the Barnes bullets and Elite is wrong on that issue. The Barnes bullets are not solid copper, they are hollow points.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011

  3. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Have no firsthand knowledge but my initial thought is that the appeal of AR lower pistols places those calibers under the same requirements of other dual use ammo. The seller must inquire on the use and get proof of age for pistol use from anyone appearing to be under 21.
     
  4. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yunus:

    This is all i could find on the web. You have to read an awful lot to find out that Elite may have a spotty reputation.


    Stand down all you drama queens At Elite Ammo - Page 1 - AR15.COM
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  5. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    Yes the .223 is , according to the ever so intelligent atf, a pistol cartridge. All it takes is one person to make a (single, 1, one, prototype) pistol that shoots that caliber. I have a theory that the atf pays people to do it. I would'nt put it past them.
     
  6. Ploofy

    Ploofy New Member

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    I could understand if they did. There are several pistols that shoot the smaller caliber long rifle rounds, and a .223 is perfect for target shooting, so it would make sense to have pistols that shot it. Though I know that there are pistols that shoot .22 LR and a .22 isn't considered a pistol round.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  7. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    Thanks for the link Alsaqr after reading that thread it cleared a few things up. The ATF didn't change anything, it sounds like EA had been circumventing the law for a while claiming that their copper zinc alloy metal was not brass and now the ATF disagrees.

    I also found this which actually states the law, always a good reference. In addition a couple people in the other thread said that M855 (green tip) is exempt, as well as something in 30-06 caliber.

    Legality of AP Ammo
     
  8. Bigcountry02

    Bigcountry02 Coffee! If your not shaking, you need another cup Supporter

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  9. racoleman

    racoleman New Member

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    What about TC encore and contenders in pistol form? Would this make all available pistol Cham wrings qualify?That would really be nuts.
     
  10. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There was nothing about this on the Elite Ammo website when i checked it this morning.

    Did some research and found out that Elite did make some bullets from turned brass. Solid brass handgun bullets are illegal. This is my post from another website:

    Despite what EA says their bullets are not the same as Barnes bullets.

    i use lots of Barnes bullets, especially the Triple shocks, MZ muzzleloader bullets and the XPB handgun bullets. Barnes says their TSX, TTSX and XPB bullets are made of 100 percent copper: i believe that to be true. It is legal to make handgun caliber bullets from pure copper. It is not legal to make them from brass or bronze.

    Barnes Bullets - Rifle Components

    Voila!!! There is nothing on the EA website this morning about the BATFE and bullets:

    Elite Ammunition

    Then there is this little jewel:

    http://www.merchantcircle.com/busine...n.815-814-0847


    Quote:
    Turned solid brass bullets. Extremely accurate with our signature Extreme Boat Tail that drive up ... More

    And another one:

    NEW EA Trident 36gr PFP BT Bullet - ICarry.org

    IMO: Elite Ammo made a big boo boo and tried to drag Barnes down with them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  11. ahole

    ahole New Member

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    223

    The 223 is not baned as it is not classified as a pistole round. nether is the 7.62x39 yet the specialty ammo is prohibited for import. The 7.62x51 aka 308 is classified as a pistol round the intelligent people at the BATF. TC, Remington, Lone Eagle, Savage, H&R... all make a pistol that shoot a 308 round and in the early 1990 7.62x51 AP ammo was very plentiful. So they banned the use ownership and transfer of 7.62x51 aka 308. Even though the same companies make the same guns in all other cal. You can still buy sell and own 7.62x39 AP and Lake City ss109 223. the law states AP ammo can not be a pistol round and has to be US made or imported pre 2005.
     
  12. ahole

    ahole New Member

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    7.62x51

    If you are going to reload 7.62x51 with pulled black tip SOFT impact round from surplus 30-06. You might want to use IMR3031 38.5 gr powder. i think it might give you a 2700 ft per sec and might penetrate a 3 inch plate at 400 yard. but i would not advise doing anything of the sort.
     
  13. Oohrah

    Oohrah New Member

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    Not many calibers escape not being dual classified pistol/rifle. The .223 is both also as there are pistols build on the AR action, and also the Contenders in that caliber. However the AR pistols are marked on the receiver if they are a pistol.
    Also many rifle lowers are stamped multi caliber instead of .223.
     
  14. ahole

    ahole New Member

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    True but the batf regulations is only lookingat select cal. 223 and 7.62x39 are not on the list yet 308 aka 7.62x51 is.