[AmsterDan]

Hey there,

I am Rooky, absolutely new to firearms, going for my license upcoming February. Though, sooner or later I will have to make a decision on what rifle to choose ... and there are lots. Reason to ask you, the way more experienced people!

Being aware of the wide variety of choice, I am sure my question is going to generate a tremendous amount of opinions and advice which I really appreciate but I'll try to narrow it down with the following information.

I'll need to learn how to shoot on a rifle that I'd like to keep for years. (For example: A .22 cal. will fairly quickly be outgrown). So target shooting I guess is best to start with, but maybe down the road I'd like to go hunt small deer. Budget sits around $1000.

I've talked to buddies saying that I'll learn to shoot eventually, just get a 30-06 and it'll be fun also for later on. But the reality of target shooting with 30-06 cost wise doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm looking forward to your responses and thanks for the help!

 

[matt g]

Winchester Model 70 Sporter in .270 Win.

 

[stalkingbear]

There's NO WAY I could recommend anything other than a .22 rifle for someone that's never shot a rifle. Regardless of what you WANT, picking a .22 to start out on makes the ONLY sense. The reason is with a .22 you can afford to practice your trigger control & sight alignment without having to worry about recoil or it costing 1.00 per round instead of .02-.03. Trying to start out with a 30-06 will only teach you how to flinch. Do yourself a HUGE favor and get a good .22 rifle. Later, when you're ready, you can move up.

 

[Txhillbilly]

+1 with Stalkingbear,and you will never outgrow a 22lr. I'm 45 and still have and shoot the Marlin 81 that my grandfather gave me as a child,plus I think I have about a dozen other 22's in the safe that I shoot regularly. There isn't another caliber of gun that is more fun to shoot and I have many other calibers. It is cheap to shoot them all day,and you can really work up your shooting skills with an accurate one.

 

[cpttango30]

Ok you are brnad new to firearms. I can tell you for a guy that owns more rimfires than centerfires. You wil never outgrow a 22lr. or a 22mag. If you are dead set on not having the most fun caliber ever then You are going to want to stick to the bottom end I am going to say a 22 hornet or 222 rem. the problem is both are harder to find ammo for.

The reason for going with a rimfire to start out with is to devolpe god shooting habbits. If you start out shooting a 30-06 you are going to flench because recoil on a 30-06 can be stiff. You need to learn proper sight picture and if you are worrying about the recoil your not worried about lining up sights or placeing the crosshairs in the center. You can not learn proper trigger control if you are worried about recoil this will make you slap the trigger and cause recoil to feel worse why because your body is tensing up expecting it. A Rimfire will teach you to suprise yourself when the trigger breaks. Just as I say start on a rimfire I will also say start with open sights. Did you learn the butterfly stroke before you learned to dogie paddle? Did you learn to drive a 80 ton semi befre you learned to drive a car? You need to do things in steps.

I know plenty of guys that think rimfires are for sissies and only have the biggest and newet superduperwhomperjaw mag cartridges. But when it comes right down to it they can't shoot as good as me why because I will sit down and shoot 2000 22lr in a single range session. they sit down and close their eyes and slap the trigger on their new famndancy .500 Super Ultra Short Action Ubber Louden Boomer and get pissed and say it is the guns fault when they can't hit the target. Then I sit down with the same rifle and turn in a 3/4" group.

IF cost is a worry as you say in

But the reality of target shooting with 30-06 cost wise doesn't make much sense to me.

. Then the cost of 22lr ammo about about $.02 US a round is much more cheap than $1 US A round 30-06 ammo.

Get yourself a good 22lr like a CZ, Remington, Ruger or many other companies. Even older 22 rifles that run $100 to $300 make for some good shooting. Like an old Mossberg 44us can be had for $250 it will out shoot just about any 22lr factory production gun out there.

CZ 22lr are good to start looking at. I am not sure what firearms are offered on the other side of the pond so I can not point you towards a specific one. But CZ is a euorpen company so I am assuming they sell them over there.

 

[AmsterDan]

Thanks for all the advise!

No, I have not had any training yet, I'm booked in February to go get it.
So, as a recap. The .22 is a great way of learning the basics of shooting (which is important) with regards to the trigger, sighting etc. I'm starting to feel now that this is a fun and dirt cheap way of learning.

Is there something to say for a good second hand .22? If so:
1. What is the difference between .22 and .22 long rifle?
2. When browsing for a good second hand rifle (or brand new), could you tell me what I am looking for?

Thanks for the constructive comments. This is really helpful!

 

[tallguy130]

AmsterDan, I was in the same place about 6 months ago. So as a fellow newbe I can say you'll get a lot of good advice on this site. A few big things I've learned are:

- 22's are great! An ok gun can be cheap, ammo is very cheap, and it's just fun to shoot.

- If you get a rilfe think about getting a bolt action. Semi-auto is fun but being forced to slow down and think about how your shooting has been very helpful to me while learning. Also cleaning a bolt action is way simpler then a semi-auto. Breaking down a semi-auto can be a real pain and it was something I never thought of when I got mine. Easy now, but when your starting out simple is best right?

- A 22 hand gun is great fun too. Good way to pick up some skills and it still won't break the bank.

These guys will set you right. Have fun!

 

[cpttango30]

1. What is the difference between .22 and .22 long rifle?

Not really we are just lazy and don't always type the lr after 22.

You do have different sizes of 22 rimfire cartridges. You now have CB, Short, Long, Long Rifle, and Stinger.

The 22 Short is the same as a 22lr except it is SHORT. It is sometimes loaded with a little bit of powder or none at all. I believe that the shorts all have some powder in them. There are the 22 CB or Conical Bullet which can be had in short or long versions it has no powder and is very quiet.

The 22 long and 22 long rifle are very close to the same length. The 22 long was killed by the 22 long rifle. Beause they perform the same in pistols and the long rifle out performed the long in all rifles. You can use all of these in the same rifle but if you are using something like the Marlin model 60 or Rugers 10/22 the longs, shorts, and CB will not cycle the bolt.

The 22 long rifle or 22lr is these most popular cartridge in the world. More 22lr ammo is made and sold than any 3 other centerfire cartridges combined. You have everything from subsonic too $30 a box match grade to hyper velocity (Remington Yellow Jackets, CCI Stingers) in this size you can do just about anything with it. I know guys that buy Federal target ammo by the flat which is I think 10,000 round boxes. You can even get ammo that is so quiet you can shoot it in the house Aguila makes the 22 lr Colibri and Super Colibri. Which uses 20gr bullets and no powder. These are ment to fire into small bullet traps or for close range vermin disbatching in populated areas.

The Stinger or CCI Stinger is a hypervelocity ( 1400fps+) rounds. This is a special design that uses a 22lr case that is slightly longer than normal. It is built to the SAMMI max length of a 22 lr case. Thus if you have a rifle with a match grade chamber you CAN NOT shoot stingers in it. I hope this helps some in the figuring out what we are all talking about. Sometimes we forget we are helping a new shooter.

 

[cpttango30]

2. When browsing for a good second hand rifle (or brand new), could you tell me what I am looking for?

This is a tough one. You are looking for a gun with crisp rifling with no rough patches when you look threw the barrel into a light. You want it to be clean and you want everything to function properly. If you buy from a store (Again not sure of your laws) you should be ok. Ask some friends that shoot where a good reputable store is then go in and talk to them tell them you are making a first firearms purchase. They should help you out. If not go somewhere else. I would visit a couple of store in your area if you can.

And by all means keep on asking questions. We are hear to help you out. Never meet many shooters that would steer a new shooter wrong.

 

[GatorDude]

Choosing a .22

I'm with the choose a .22 first crowd on this one. When I go to the range, most of my time is spent shooting a .22 of some kind. It just makes sense from a economic perspective. In addition, I'm basically just trying to hit the bullseye for fun. If I were a hunter, a soldier, or a law enforcement officer, it might make sense to spend more time with a primary weapon.

Here is a series of articles that I wrote for first-time gun owners on how to choose a .22-caliber rifle. These will give you some things to think about as you choose a firearm:
Choosing Your First .22-Caliber Rifle: Part 1 of 3 - Associated Content
Choosing Your First .22-Caliber Rifle: Part 2 of 3 - Associated Content
Choosing Your First .22-Caliber Rifle: Other Features to Consider - Associated Content

Once you've got the fundamentals of safety and marksmanship down, you can easily move to other firearms. Then, you'll be looking at a firearm that fits a specific niche: hunting, long range marksmanship, self-defense, historical value, etc. Good luck and welcome to a great hobby!

 

[dnthmn2004]

I'm also going to recommend getting a rifle chambered in 22LR. Its a great cartridge to learn on and you can shoot all day without breaking the bank. Just remember, you can always trade it in.

I would get a nice, used, bolt action 22lr. You could probably get a Savage Arms Mark-II for about $200. IMO, you can't beat a Savage rimfire for the price. The factory trigger is great. If you wanted an auto-loader, look at a Ruger 10/22. Fantastic rifle and everyone knows what they are.

Another caliber to consider is 17 HMR. The ammo is more expensive than 22lr, but far more accurate. I have a Savage 93R17 and I can shoot tacs that were left on the backerboards.

left: 17HMR right: 22LR

For a deer caliber, I would recommend a 270 Winchester. You could get a new Remington 700 for a decent price. (If you shop around, you could get both rifles I recommended for under your $1000 limit)

 

[dnthmn2004]

Welcome to the forms by the way!!!

 

[stalkingbear]

You're trying to give him bad advise by recommending the .17HMR. The ammo costs is prohibitive compared to .22LR. Also, I'd SURE like to know where you got it at that .17HMR is "far more accurate" than .22LR. Sure almost all of them are VERY accurate BUT The last several 10/22s I've personally built will (easily proven) group 5 shots at 50 yards into .170-.230" from solid rest. PLEASE share with us how much more accurate the .17HMR is than that. There's not much actual difference in inherent accuracy at 50 yards between the 2.

I'm also going to recommend getting a rifle chambered in 22LR. Its a great cartridge to learn on and you can shoot all day without breaking the bank.

Another caliber to consider is 17 HMR. The ammo is more expensive than 22lr, but far more accurate. I have a Savage 93R17 and I can shoot tacs that were left on the backerboards.



left: 17HMR right: 22LR

For a deer caliber, I would recommend a 270 Winchester. You could get a new Remington 700 for a decent price. (If you shop around, you could get both rifles I recommended for under your $1000 limit)

 

[cpttango30]

You're trying to give him bad advise by recommending the .17HMR. The ammo costs is prohibitive compared to .22LR. Also, I'd SURE like to know where you got it at that .17HMR is "far more accurate" than .22LR. Sure almost all of them are VERY accurate BUT The last several 10/22s I've personally built will (easily proven) group 5 shots at 50 yards into .170-.230" from solid rest. PLEASE share with us how much more accurate the .17HMR is than that. There's not much actual difference in inherent accuracy at 50 yards between the 2.

Bear you must hang out with all them crazy guys over on Rimfirecentral.com them boys are some 10/22 NUT cases if I have ever seen them. If you think it hasn't been done look on there and I will bet no guarantee it has been done.

 

[canebrake]

Dude just go out and get a <$200 single shot or bolt/mag 22 rifle, 1K brick of name brand ammo and go expend!

Nothing fancy, no optics just basic iron sight shooting/training (and a sh1t load of fun)!

If you can do it in your back yard, great. Get a bunch of targets and pulp them up! Don’t hang them on a tree, get a bale of straw and shoot the hell out of it. If that’s not an option, go to a range and just have fun.

Bet this will result in you buying a second brick of ammo!

DO NOT RUSH into your next weapon purchase. You’re first gun will always be your first, even if it’s a piece of sh1t! If you are anything like the rest of us you will probably keep it forever and maybe even hand it down to your son for his first gun.

Enjoy the ride and learn along the way. Watch what the other shooters are doing and using. Ask questions both here on the forum and at the range. Every shooter I’ve met has been more than happy to help a noob. We all have something we can add to your gun experience. You are only a noob until you help another shooter by solving a problem you have experienced.

In the beginning this advice is good to follow. As you gain experience it will change to a source of data that you will use to form your own decisions.

Your first gun is obtained by chance, every thing you buy after that MUST be made by choice or you will not be shooting what you want but what others like!

Here's a Caneisim: My Dad used to tell us, “God gave you two ears and one mouth, use them proportionally.”

 

[canebrake]

...group 5 shots at 50 yards into .170-.230" from solid rest. PLEASE share with us how much more accurate the .17HMR is than that. There's not much actual difference in inherent accuracy at 50 yards between the 2.

Sure there is, the cost to punch each hole!

 

[dnthmn2004]

You're trying to give him bad advise by recommending the .17HMR. The ammo costs is prohibitive compared to .22LR. Also, I'd SURE like to know where you got it at that .17HMR is "far more accurate" than .22LR. Sure almost all of them are VERY accurate BUT The last several 10/22s I've personally built will (easily proven) group 5 shots at 50 yards into .170-.230" from solid rest. PLEASE share with us how much more accurate the .17HMR is than that. There's not much actual difference in inherent accuracy at 50 yards between the 2.

I have no doubt you've built some accurate rifles for 50 yard shooting. I'm sure there is practically no difference between the accuracy of both at 50 yards. Unfortunately, I don't do much rifle shooting at 50 yards.

I can only assume you use an electric target to get .170-.230" groupings.

 

[stalkingbear]

While YOU MAY shoot further than that, REMEMBER this guy is just starting out and WON'T have same needs as you OR I. He needs to start out with the inexpensive .22LR-NOT something costing 7.00-9.00 per 50 rounds. Yes I'm an accuracy "freak" and I sense disbelief and would be only too happy to prove it right in front of you.

I SERIOUSLY doubt a beginner is going to be shooting at 300 yards as your graph suggests,perhaps not even you with a rimfire.

 

[dnthmn2004]

I did suggest the 22LR first and actually praised the Ruger 10/22. I'm sorry that you don't like the 17HMR. To each his own. I was just laying down another option. One that might have closer flight characteristics to hunting, which is what amsterdan would eventually like to do. If our friend, was only used to making 50 yard shots, then he moved up to 100-200 yards with a rifle suitable for hunting deer, that would just be one more intimidation on top of the recoil.

And I would love for you to show me first hand your personally-built Ruger 10/22s. Not because of disbelief, but that would be something cool to watch. Too bad I live in Massachusetts and you live in Kentucky.

 

[canebrake]

I am Rooky, absolutely new to firearms, going for my license upcoming February. Though, sooner or later I will have to make a decision on what rifle to choose ... and there are lots.

AmsterDan, as you can see we are passionate about our personal weapon selections.

As you get started, save your budget for that perfect rifle decision when you're ready to make it. Now is not the time, that's why you came to us.

Please read my earlier post (#15) to determine if it makes sense.

It's your $, make it count!