rhetorical ccw question

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by dragunovsks, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Me and a coworker were talking and he started asking me about when to use deadly force. He asked if id use deadly force if i was attacked by someone with a knife, to which i said yes. Its a deadly weapon and the attacker means me bodily harm or death. He then asked me would i do the same if attacked by someone armed with something other than a deadly weapon like a crowbar. I told him if i felt like that person was intent on doing me bodily harm i would do what id need to protect myself and family. Any thoughts, am i right or what?
     
  2. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    Only in the heat of battle can it be answered. If he had a knife he is gone.
    If he had a crowbar ... he will be wounded. But then again, only in the heat
    of battle can it truly be answered.
     

  3. H2oWerker

    H2oWerker New Member

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    A crowbar? That's as lethal as a knife w/ a greater reach. My vote "shoot em".
     
  4. RecklessRegard

    RecklessRegard New Member

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    Are you in fear for your life? Then, yes deadly force is justifiable. Now, if an unarmed attacker is coming at you? Arguable...
     
  5. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    Any kind of weapon is most likely lethal. It would only take a crowbar to connect with your skull once and it's lights out for good.

    No weapon can be lethal depending upon your age and physical stature.

    If I'm in fear of my life or the life of another, I darn well hope I pull the trigger.
     
  6. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    How is a crowbar NOT a deadly weapon??? Crowbar, fork, knife, screwdriver, rock, car, whatever, it doesn't take much effort to do serious harm with almost any inanimate instrument. Its' up to you to decide if your safety is in danger and in a heated confrontation, unless your opponent is wielding a pillow, I'd say you are...whether to shoot or not is an entirely different thought...and thread...I hope :D
     
  7. dragunovsks

    dragunovsks New Member

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    Thats the point i made to him. He also asked what if your attacker has a pencil. I said wtf dude, you are 37 and youre asking me this. I didnt justify him with an answer.
     
  8. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    A crow bar can be very deadly, and can cause serious harm. One single solid whack to the head may make you a vegetable for life.

    Just about ANY object can be a deadly weapon. I'm not too sure about the phone in my hand, but I'm sure with a little creativity one could figure it out.

    We had a saying in MCMAP (Marine Corps Marital Arts Program) one mind, any weapon.

    I'm fully confident that unless I'm disarmed or it gets broken, I can kill a man with a plastic spoon. I'm not trying to claim I'm a bad ass, really I'm more of an angry pacifist, but the training is there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2011
  9. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    Counter the pencil with a giant eraser...:D
     
  10. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    A marshmallow. Can you kill with a marshmallow... that's the big question.
     
  11. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Yes, although maybe not with just one. 2 or 3 should do it quite nicely.
     
  12. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    my vote is if someone is running at me with a blunt object and they don't stop when I draw my gun and yell stop or i'll shoot I'm shooting first and then asking questions. Or if they just look like there going to hurt me and don't stop when I draw my weapon three rounds to the chest then we'll sort things out.
     
  13. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    How many people have you seen in the movies that were killed with a fireplace poker?
    How many have you seen killed with a golf club (again, in the movies).

    Florida has it in their state statute (and your state probably has the same):


    The 2011 Florida Statutes

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES


    Chapter 776
    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE



    776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

    History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.



    Title XLVI
    CRIMES


    Chapter 776
    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE


    View Entire Chapter






    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
    (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

    (2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or

    (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

    (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

    (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    (4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

    (5) As used in this section, the term:
    (a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

    (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

    (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

    History.—s. 1, ch. 2005-27.
     
  14. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    It all depends on who wields the weapon,if I saw some 5' tall chick coming at me with a crowbar i'd probably grab it away from her,if it was a 6'6" 280 lb psycho dude trying to kill me i'd shoot him dead before he gets within 10 yards of me.
     
  15. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    You could suffocate someone with a marshmallow :)
     
  16. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    Question answered :D
     

    Attached Files:

  17. RecklessRegard

    RecklessRegard New Member

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    FOOD-
    If you put a bunch of marshmallows in the microwave and zing them they will expand and shoot molten hot goop all over.... You could get burned to death...

    WRITING UTENSILS-
    Next time you see a cop, look and see what style pen he is carrying. Around here, the bulk of LEOs carry the Zebra F-301. It is a standard click ball point pen with a steel tip, plastic finger checkering, and a steel tube. Why? If you are at a car door or out taking notes and someone attacks you, you need to defend yourself in a hurry. Use what's in your hand; hopefully it isn't a flimsy plastic pen thats going to fold under pressure.
     
  18. towboater

    towboater Active Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCPqvW8ycEQ]Riddick - Kill you with my tea cup - YouTube[/ame]
     
  19. H2oWerker

    H2oWerker New Member

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    He is 37 and hasn't seen Casino?!
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxKiK-SeBhE&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]
     
  20. AZL

    AZL New Member

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    The legal ground that covers you pretty much all over the country is "Would a reasobable person consider the weapon to be capable of causing death or grave bodily harm".

    A crow bar is just as capable of crushing your skull as a hammer. The addage: A knife, is a bat, is a steel pipe, is a gun....they are ALL deadly weapons IF employed in a manner consistent with what a reasonable person would be made to believe they are capable of deadly force.

    Your attacker MUST have the means and ablility to employ it in that way....which a knife or any other contact weapon...within 21 feet can be buried in your chest or cave in your skull in right around 1.5 seconds.

    So...crow bar, tire iron, ball bat, axe handle, hammer, hatchet, machete.....

    You can see where that is going.