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I was working on my handgun inventory and drug this one from the back of the safe, I had forgotten I had it.....
This is a pretty cool revolver. It is a Smith and Wesson Model of 1905, 4th change. The made about 750,000 of these between 1915 and 1942, and the serial places this one in the 1917/18 range. It is interesting because S&W made a few thousand of these with no S&W logo on the piece, during the wartime production. It is also a round butt, when most of them were square butt guns.

The piece is very good condition for a hundred year old plus revolver. As far as I can tell, the nickel is original and only has a couple spots of discoloration. it does have some scuffing as might be expected, but it cleans up well. I took these pics with the preservative still on it, but you will get the idea. I am thinking about choking up a hundred bucks for a S&W letter of authenticity to see if I can find out where it was shipped from the factory.

240465
 

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wartime nickle?
That is a good question. I have no idea if nickel was a controlled "strategic metal" in WWI or not. Of course, if this revolver was made before April of '17, we weren't in the war yet. That also brings up the question of how much of Smith and Wesson's firearm production capacity was dedicated to wartime production of the various revolvers. Of course, this could be a postwar finish, I don't know if the nickel was original, and I am not good at judging that feature.
 

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Nice piece. It makes me thing of "times gone by" when super high power, hi tech hollow point +P ammo wasn't around, and big bore handguns or magnums weren't so common if around at all. The shooters still managed to dispatch targets with slow lead bullets with round noses pretty regularly. Now, it isn't hard to find conversations over which super duper hollow point or frangible is "the best and only one" capable of neutralizing a perp. A .22 came a nat's butt from doing Reagan in.
 

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Nice piece. It makes me thing of "times gone by" when super high power, hi tech hollow point +P ammo wasn't around, and big bore handguns or magnums weren't so common if around at all. The shooters still managed to dispatch targets with slow lead bullets with round noses pretty regularly. Now, it isn't hard to find conversations over which super duper hollow point or frangible is "the best and only one" capable of neutralizing a perp. A .22 came a nat's butt from doing Reagan in.
I guess people are tougher now days, it takes at least .40 cal. and a 15 round magazine to stop someone today. When I was a kid, cops were carrying revolvers, wearing a cotton shirt for ballistic protection, and they would scrap with their fists or nightstick if they needed to. Those old WWII vets were tough!

If you go back to the turn of the previous century, .38 S&W, .32, and even .25 were considered reasonable concealed pieces.
 

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I guess people are tougher now days, it takes at least .40 cal. and a 15 round magazine to stop someone today. When I was a kid, cops were carrying revolvers, wearing a cotton shirt for ballistic protection, and they would scrap with their fists or nightstick if they needed to. Those old WWII vets were tough!

If you go back to the turn of the previous century, .38 S&W, .32, and even .25 were considered reasonable concealed pieces.
That's true and it seemed like more people were nicer then. It reminds me of the old psychology study of putting two healthy mice in a cage, watching them happily multiply with food and water on demand, have other happy mice, who had other happy mice and you know the rest of the story. The cage didn't get any bigger and before it was over the mice got aggressive, lost weight and became unhealthy in spite of on demand food and water, started killing each other in the crowded cage and, in time, the mice weren't happy any longer. Remind you of......what's going on now?
 

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I guess people are tougher now days, it takes at least .40 cal. and a 15 round magazine to stop someone today. When I was a kid, cops were carrying revolvers, wearing a cotton shirt for ballistic protection, and they would scrap with their fists or nightstick if they needed to. Those old WWII vets were tough!

If you go back to the turn of the previous century, .38 S&W, .32, and even .25 were considered reasonable concealed pieces.
Medical advancements, that's the difference. Wasn't much that could be done for you, if say, you took a .380 JHP to the chest, and there was no way to assess the damage, past the nice whistling sound, of the air entering and exiting your chest, through that new hole or two in the chest wall. And we were still decades off from cillin based antibiotics, still using sulfer based ones, and xrays were still science fiction.

So no, we ain't tougher. Our medical care just is better set up to save the weak, and give them a fair shot at surviving what would have killed the same person back then.
 

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Medical advancements, that's the difference. Wasn't much that could be done for you, if say, you took a .380 JHP to the chest, and there was no way to assess the damage, past the nice whistling sound, of the air entering and exiting your chest, through that new hole or two in the chest wall. And we were still decades off from cillin based antibiotics, still using sulfer based ones, and xrays were still science fiction.

So no, we ain't tougher. Our medical care just is better set up to save the weak, and give them a fair shot at surviving what would have killed the same person back then.
I am afraid you may have taken what I said literally. It was more of a sideways comment on the differences in philosophy rather than the advancement of medical science or physiology. Sometimes I write or speak in a rhetoric that is full of metaphors and similes and rife with sarcasm.
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Of course, everything you say is true. Big changes in the treatment of gunshot wounds took place around the time of WWI. (practice makes perfect) and improved dramatically during WWII.

Our philosophy today is to incapacitate as quickly as possible. To make a wound so severe that the receiver loses consciousness in seconds, so today, we want to carry 15 or twenty rounds of high-velocity, exotic ammo to accomplish the task. We we say that we shoot to stop a threat, and what we mean by that is causing such severe damage that the shootee is most likely to bleed out before the meat wagon gets there. We shoot to kill, whether we like to admit it or not, and most of us realize that.

My comment was also a sideways slap at people who think that expensive handguns, high-capacity and super bullets are a shortcut to the necessary investment of time and ammo to develop and maintain the ability to place a round on target. Again, a philosophical issue. So the question becomes this; would we be as safe today, carrying a revolver with .38 S&W as we are with carrying a Sig with a 20 round mag of +P hollow-points, and the answer is, for the overwhelming number of situations, would be a resounding yes.

Only the tiniest percentage of people who daily carry a handgun will ever have to pull it in self defense. In most gun self defense battles less than four rounds are shot, so the Colt Cobra in my desk drawer would usually be sufficient for self defense.

Of course, just because I am aware of the facts of the case, doesn't make a lot of difference, I am still considering swapping my 8 shot .45, for a 14 shot Rami, so I am guilty of the same sin that I accuse others of. The difference is, I know it. ;)
 
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"Sometimes I write or speak in a rhetoric that is full of metaphors and similes and rife with sarcasm.".......thanks for clarifying that, I really wasn't sure.....:ROFLMAO:

"Only the tiniest percentage of people who daily carry a handgun will ever have to pull it in self defense. In most gun self defense battles less than four rounds are shot, so the Colt Cobra in my desk drawer would usually be sufficient for self defense.".....So glad to hear that as it somewhat validates the Model 37 I sometimes carry for SD.

And some would have us believe that the 2A is really not "absolute" but is a sin as well. Sorry, but I just don't buy into that so maybe(?) I'm just another sinner.

You'll never know how appreciative I am of your presence here, Chain, as you help clarify so many things that some would have us believe are ambiguous.....:)(y)
 

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"Sometimes I write or speak in a rhetoric that is full of metaphors and similes and rife with sarcasm.".......thanks for clarifying that, I really wasn't sure.....:ROFLMAO:

"Only the tiniest percentage of people who daily carry a handgun will ever have to pull it in self defense. In most gun self defense battles less than four rounds are shot, so the Colt Cobra in my desk drawer would usually be sufficient for self defense.".....So glad to hear that as it somewhat validates the Model 37 I sometimes carry for SD.

And some would have us believe that the 2A is really not "absolute" but is a sin as well. Sorry, but I just don't buy into that so maybe(?) I'm just another sinner.

You'll never know how appreciative I am of your presence here, Chain, as you help clarify so many things that some would have us believe are ambiguous.....:)(y)
Another man who is not a stranger to art of sarcasm. ;)

Nothing in this life is absolute, but death and change, and yes, that does, to the dismay of many people, include the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. (as it does to the other 26 amendments, and the Constitution, to the Holy Bible, the Koran and all other sacred texts) Time, language and even the truth are all fluid.

One issue that some people have been unable to wrap their minds around, is that, as a nation, we have yet to make a final decision as to the meaning of 2A. There are a lot of varying opinions on the subject, and that is exactly why it is talked about so much. Not even this very conservative Supreme Court has had the courage to stamp their foot and yell, "This is what it means." Until such a time that that happens, we will continue to argue about it.

As a species, we have been somewhat successful due to our ability to adapt to changes. To accept those facts of life is enlightenment, not a sin.
 

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Another man who is not a stranger to art of sarcasm. ;)

Nothing in this life is absolute, but death and change, and yes, that does, to the dismay of many people, include the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. (as it does to the other 26 amendments, and the Constitution, to the Holy Bible, the Koran and all other sacred texts) Time, language and even the truth are all fluid.

One issue that some people have been unable to wrap their minds around, is that, as a nation, we have yet to make a final decision as to the meaning of 2A. There are a lot of varying opinions on the subject, and that is exactly why it is talked about so much. Not even this very conservative Supreme Court has had the courage to stamp their foot and yell, "This is what it means." Until such a time that that happens, we will continue to argue about it.

As a species, we have been somewhat successful due to our ability to adapt to changes. To accept those facts of life is enlightenment, not a sin.
I have to agree with you, Chain. Change is the only absolute, like it or not. I'm a happy dude right now. I live in a place where most people mind their business and manners, my wife just told me she likes her newly inherited FN 1900, and directed me to get more ammo for it after shooting it today. Life is good when the spousal unit directs me to get more ammo in a country where I can do that. I shall obey, of course!!

Oh, and I have been called out by "the authorities" here already for sarcasm or whatever the infractions were so that's good too. One always needs to know where the line is but you understand that in the full sense of the concept, of that I know....;)(y) Whiners whine because they are dull witted sometimes....or all of the time......
 

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I am afraid you may have taken what I said literally. It was more of a sideways comment on the differences in philosophy rather than the advancement of medical science or physiology. Sometimes I write or speak in a rhetoric that is full of metaphors and similes and rife with sarcasm.
.
Of course, everything you say is true. Big changes in the treatment of gunshot wounds took place around the time of WWI. (practice makes perfect) and improved dramatically during WWII.

Our philosophy today is to incapacitate as quickly as possible. To make a wound so severe that the receiver loses consciousness in seconds, so today, we want to carry 15 or twenty rounds of high-velocity, exotic ammo to accomplish the task. We we say that we shoot to stop a threat, and what we mean by that is causing such severe damage that the shootee is most likely to bleed out before the meat wagon gets there. We shoot to kill, whether we like to admit it or not, and most of us realize that.

My comment was also a sideways slap at people who think that expensive handguns, high-capacity and super bullets are a shortcut to the necessary investment of time and ammo to develop and maintain the ability to place a round on target. Again, a philosophical issue. So the question becomes this; would we be as safe today, carrying a revolver with .38 S&W as we are with carrying a Sig with a 20 round mag of +P hollow-points, and the answer is, for the overwhelming number of situations, would be a resounding yes.

Only the tiniest percentage of people who daily carry a handgun will ever have to pull it in self defense. In most gun self defense battles less than four rounds are shot, so the Colt Cobra in my desk drawer would usually be sufficient for self defense.

Of course, just because I am aware of the facts of the case, doesn't make a lot of difference, I am still considering swapping my 8 shot .45, for a 14 shot Rami, so I am guilty of the same sin that I accuse others of. The difference is, I know it. ;)
Well, without green text, it can be hard to tell sometimes.
 

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That is a good question. I have no idea if nickel was a controlled "strategic metal" in WWI or not.
Chain: Usually, if a gun made it to the bumper shop trigger and hammer were plated. Also, on Smith's there are refinish marks on factory guns.

Years ago I had a nearly identical 38 M&P hand ejector. The rear of the gun was pristine. The front part had been in a holster since when. The front of the gun was heavily rusted. Gun was shootable but cosmetically a wreck.

When doing research on any Smith I consult the Smith&Wesson forum. That's one of those forum with no discussion portion. Search that forum for information on refinish etc. I loafed on getting a factory letter on two of my Smith's. The price the last time I checked was $100.00.for a letter.
 

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Sarcasm: Sarcasm is an anger sign related to Passive Aggressive behavior. Sarcasm is always a poor way of communication. The listener, if he is savvy, knows when he has the speaker by the short hairs. Sarcasm is also learns toward the ambiguous. A friend would point the origin from ancient Greek was to tear flesh. It's hostile behavior anyway you look at it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sarcasm: Sarcasm is an anger sign related to Passive Aggressive behavior. Sarcasm is always a poor way of communication. The listener, if he is savvy, knows when he has the speaker by the short hairs. Sarcasm is also learns toward the ambiguous. A friend would point the origin from ancient Greek was to tear flesh. It's hostile behavior anyway you look at it.
But it can be so satisfying. ;)
 

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Love me an old S&W 38. I carry one quite often.

Chain: Usually, if a gun made it to the bumper shop trigger and hammer were plated. Also, on Smith's there are refinish marks on factory guns.

Years ago I had a nearly identical 38 M&P hand ejector. The rear of the gun was pristine. The front part had been in a holster since when. The front of the gun was heavily rusted. Gun was shootable but cosmetically a wreck.

When doing research on any Smith I consult the Smith&Wesson forum. That's one of those forum with no discussion portion. Search that forum for information on refinish etc. I loafed on getting a factory letter on two of my Smith's. The price the last time I checked was $100.00.for a letter.
The S&W Forum run by the "Big Gorilla" is one of the very best. Problem is he lives about 30 miles from me so when I get out of line I get a personal tune up in lieu of a week off.

Are they $100 now? Still worth it if you have that special S&W. I've got a very special model 66 lettered.
 
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