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I am looking for a repro Colt 3rd. Model Dragoon with Shoulder Stock, apparantly Uberti no longer produce them but if anyone hears where I might get hold of one I would be obliged............thanks
 

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Dragoon stock

You are looking for a very, very rare and hard to find item. The revolvers are available but the Dragoon stocks have not been produced for many years. They were made with both steel hardware and brass hardware. The brass ones are more likely to surface than the steel hardware. One of these stocks sold on Ebay a few years back for over $800.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You are looking for a very, very rare and hard to find item. The revolvers are available but the Dragoon stocks have not been produced for many years. They were made with both steel hardware and brass hardware. The brass ones are more likely to surface than the steel hardware. One of these stocks sold on Ebay a few years back for over $800.
Stress....thanks I am going to have to rethink my plan......:rolleyes:
 

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Yep, but people are still looking for good information, nonetheless! Only bad thing is that I can't find a repro cavalry one with the folding 3-leaf sight and notch-cut grip (1860 Army stock supposed to fit, probably need modded to fit properly tho, VTI and Taylors carries the shoulder stock-hammer screw - be a neat diy presentation case assembly)!
 

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Realize that this is an old thread, but thought I'd share some relevant info.

Historically, and in the reproduction world, there are actually two versions of the 3rd model Dragoon - for simplicity's sake I will refer to them as the "Civilian" and "Military" models. The Civilian is much more common, and really the main difference between it and the 2nd Model Dragoon is the shape of the trigger guard. The Military version, however, has some subtle but very significant differences, that allow it to both mount a shoulder stock and maximize usability of said stock.

How to spot? Key differences between the Civilian and the Military version are as follows:
1) The backstrap on the Military version is iron/steel, not brass like the Civilian model
2) The Military backstrap has a small notch or "divot" at the butt end to facilitate attachment of a shoulder stock
3) The frame of the Military model has 4 screws - the fourth screw is actually a raised "stud" that, again, facilitates the mounting of a shoulder stock. The Civilian version only has three flush screws, as most/all Colt percussion revolvers otherwise have.
4) The bottom of the recoil shield has a small portion cut away, once again to accommodate the stock.
5) Finally, the barrel of the Military version has a dovetail slot cut towards the top rear, to mount a three leaf folding sight; I believe allowing aimed fire out to 100 and 200 yards for the two "long range" leaves.

In terms of reproductions, there aren't very many and they can be hard to come by, but they *do* exist. There are two, possibly three, that I know of:
1) Uberti has (and may still have, IDK) a Military 3rd Model that has the first four features listed above, but lacks the leaf sight arrangement.

2) Colt's 3rd Generation "Signature Series" has a Military 3rd Model (stated as such) but the description in Adler's "Black Powder Revolvers - Reproductions and Replicas" only mentions that it is "military" and has a steel backstrap, and does not go into further detail on the other features. I suspect that it is similar to the Uberti, since I believe Colt used Uberti castings as a starting point for their 2nd & 3rd generation series. But I could be wrong...

3) Finally, a long time ago ('70's, I think) Armi San Marco offered a 3rd Model that had ALL the above features, including the leaf sights! They had two versions: a standard model that was basically a straight reproduction, and a "Buntline" version with an 18" barrel. The drawback to this otherwise good reproduction is that it had all the really obnoxious "Made in Italy" etc. stamps.

Note and note well! Only the Military model is able to mount a stock - the Civilian version lacks the features needed to accept it. So make sure you get the correct sub-version of the 3rd Model Dragoon!

Hope this helps!
 

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The reason I responded to this old thread was because I have been trying to take a "Military" 3rd Model Dragoon of Uberti make that I bought a number of years ago, and modify it to have the correct 3-leaf sight mounted to the barrel. To that end I managed to get an old ASM 3rd Dragoon with barrel and rear sights; the plan is to modify the Uberti barrel to accept the sights (since the ASM will not fit on a Uberti frame, and I don't like the "Made in Italy" etc. markings).

In addition to remaking the revolver itself, I would like to find a reproduction stock, if possible, so if anybody knows of one, pray let me know...
 

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Charles: Thank you so much for all of the valuable info. I bought a Dragoon from an old buddy of mines widow years ago. I thru it in the safe and basically forgot about it. A few months ago I dug it out, and started shooting it. Man, is that thing fun to shoot. It has the dovetail on the barrel for the rear sight, but there wasn't a sight installed. So I'm guessing I have the military version. I've been looking around for a rear sight, and they appear to be as hard to find as the shoulder stock is. (after reading your info, you've convinced me that I need a shoulder stock) Do you have any idea where I may be able to find a rear sight for my Dragoon? It looks like with a little work, I may be able to make a folding rear sight out of an old Marlin sight, but I'd like to use OEM parts if they're out there. If I come across a stock for you, I'll let you know. I think Boris has lost interest in finding a stock? ..thanks again.
 

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I assume you must have an ASM Dragoon (it should be marked "<<SAN MARCO>> GARDONE V.T. -BRESCIA-" on the side of the barrel)? AFAIK those are the only ones that had the sights mounted - unless you have an actual antique Dragoon!

As for getting sights, they are not available, though at one time I think someone did have reproductions made. I managed to get one off of an ASM barrel I found up on eBay that had been parted out. I've not made any effort to mount it to the barrel of my Uberti, other than picking up a new condition Colt 2nd Gen barrel (which is of Uberti make but Colt finish) off of eBay. My intent, after I fit the barrel to my frame (some minor work is needed) is to have a machinist cut a dovetail of the correct size in the correct position to mount this sight.

I will also inquire as to how much it would cost to reverse engineer the ASM sight and make copies. Wouldn't get your hopes up, but if it is not too horribly expensive I will see about getting copies made, and might also make the drawings available for a small fee as well.

You might be able to modify the Marlin sight, but without looking at them side by side I couldn't say much more. Wouldn't hurt to do it, though, so long as you don't modify the dovetail on the barrel. One thing I have noticed, though, is that some original Civilian Dragoons and some Walkers had a single "leaf" rear sight mounted on the barrel as an aftermarket modification (not sure if it was by Colt or an unaffiliated gunsmith)

Regarding stocks, as you have observed they are hard to find. Caution: what you may find are intended for the 1851 Navy/1860 Army, which also had a "military" version available, and the Dragoon frame is rather larger than the 51/60 types. It would be nice to have one of each to compare and see if one can be refitted to the other, etc.
 

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Hello Charles, thank you for the added info. No, unfortunately I don't have an actual Colt. It is a Uberti / Navy Arms / 3rd Dragoon. I was really hoping hoping you'd say Dixie Gun Works or someone sold the rear sights. I've already got a hundred irons in the fire, but it shouldn't take long to mill a dovetail base for this. The old Marlin sight I have is a flip up, and with a little work I can put it on the base I make. I thought maybe my late friend had swapped out the barrel, so I pulled it out of the safe last night. Its has everything you described. I never noticed that divot in the butt until you mentioned it. I'm planning on calling my friends widow and asking if there may be a gun stock laying around that she doesnt know what it belongs to. She's moved twice since he's died, so I'm not holding out much hope, but fingers are crossed. I'll attach a photo of the groove on my pistol to this reply. I should mention that I work as a 3d designer / draftsman in the aerospace business, and I have a small milling machine in my basement. If you would like, I can take a few dimensions of the location / depth / angle, etc. of mine and send you a drawing /pdf if you'd like so your machinist can properly locate it. (I'll do that for free, as a professional courtesy to you as a fellow Dragoon owner.) Ha ha.. Maybe after the holidays, I'll be able to get a little "workbench" time in and make this sight. I'll post a photo if it all works out.
 

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Hello!

I have been following this fairly sparse thread for a while now just to see what you folks have come up with, so here is my take.

I am a new member but not new to BP revolvers. I, too, am interested in a Dragoon shoulder stock for an ASM Dragoon 4-screw CFS (cut-for-stock) frame. Insofar as such ASM revolvers are concerned, ASM produced quite a few from 1973 (XXIX date code) to 1975 (AA date code) that were marketed with shoulder stock. The early models were blackened brass furniture, later to be replaced with blackened steel furniture. All were 3rd Model Dragoons with the barrel-mounted 3-leaf rear sight.

1848 Dragoon Shoulder Stock 004a.jpg


I have a good friend on another BP forum who has an ASM revolver (without the stock) that has seen better days, but it functions well.

New 003.jpg


He is fairly partial to it but I have recently hit him up to sell it to me as a project gun.

I have an Uberti 1848 Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon and have taken measurements of the frame width compared to an ASM 1860 Army frame. The Dragoon is 3/32" wider than the 1860 Army. I believe that a current Pietta 1860 Army (Colt Type 3) shoulder stock (if one can find one these pandemic days) can be fitted to a Dragoon frame by removing about 3/64" of brass from the interior of the stock yoke on each side. There will still be enough brass "meat" left so as not to be structurally too thin. If you procure one, pay attention to the length of the "J-hook" and its housing. Stocks for the 1860 Army have a longer J-hook and housing than one for the 1851/1861 Navy.

Top: 1860 Army .44

Middle: 1861 Navy .36

Bottom: This stock is designed for both the 1858 Remington and the 1851 Navy 3-screw not CFS with two J-hook/housing lengths, manufactured by Pietta, but Pietta was not the originator of this concept. Gregorelli & Uberti came up with it around 1960-1961, and it uses an extended hammer screw with large extended screw heads in both ends.

1860 Army Shoulder Stock 016.jpg


GU Navy And Stock 001.jpg


GU Navy And Stock 002.jpg


I am no stranger to shoulder stocks. I spent over a year putting this cased set together. It is an ASM 1860 Army .44 (BD/1994) with a full-fluted cylinder (Uberti) and the original ASM round engraved cylinder, with accoutrements and a rare shoulder stock. I have no idea who made it as there are no markings, but the wood is tiger stripe maple stained dark (the wood is blond under the furniture). I doubt anyone will see another like it. All of the Pietta and (older) Uberti stocks are usually quarter-sawn straight grained walnut. As a bow to ASM in the 70's, their production stocks were much nicer than the current Pietta production.

Contest 002.jpg


!ASM 1860 001a.jpg


For those who are not familiar with him, Dr. Jim L. Davis (Claremore OK) who started and maintained the RPRCA (Replica Percussion Revolver Collector Association) website (now defunct) passed in September 2019. His estate sold the collection to October Country, unannounced, and several of my friends became aware of that in November/December 2019. Clearly, OC had no idea what they had acquired as many (most) guns sold for very low prices, far below market value. It was a feeding frenzy that OC had much of a problem with insofar as shipping them off. They were overwhelmed with the responses for these guns. I did my best to save as many photos from the offerings as I could for posterity.

Among the offerings was a cased ASM Dragoon with shoulder stock and accoutrements that went for less than $600 IIRC. Time to drool.

O.C. ASM 3rd Model Dragoon - Shoulder Stock 001.jpg

I wish I had $3K-$4K in "mad money" back then as I would have bought many items. 20/20 hindsight. I did manage to acquire 2 items but that is another story not related to this thread.

I hope everyone here has a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Regards,

Jim
 

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More eye candy. This is an ASM Dragoon 3rd Model (XX9/1973) 18" barrel that was for sale on October Country a year ago (I think it went for about $700).









Another ASM Dragoon 3rd Model Shoulder Stocked 18". It was also offered on OC, but I do not know the date code nor the price it went for. Marketed by EMF Company Santa Ana CA.








Regards,

Jim
 

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Wow, that is really cool ! I would love to stumble across something like that at an estate sale or an auction. The 18 inch barrel looks right at home on that Dragoon. Is there any way you can post a top view of a Dragoon rear sight? I picked up the material to make my rear sight base, so I should be starting on that any day. I'd like to see what the original looks like. It may be better to try and reproduce one instead of mounting my old Marlin sight on my base. Thanks for posting the photos !
 
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