Report those who call 911 when you open carry

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by gluuuek, Jul 24, 2013.

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  1. gluuuek

    gluuuek New Member

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    Could be a good way to shift the desire some people have to call the police and report responsible gun owners...

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brGoOJBZzxc[/ame]
     
  2. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    just curious, how is someone to know whether the person carrying is legally carrying or illegally carrying? pretty sure they have little understanding of current gun laws if they were reporting someone carrying a firearm. and if LE is called, and everything is above board and legal, then it's probably a moot point anyways. another point, how is the person carrying going to know who the person is that made the call in the first place.
     

  3. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Paraphrasing here somewhat but he said Oregon city has opted to make it a violation to openly carry a loaded firearm without a concealed carry permit.
    So I have a few questions.
    If he has a concealed carry permit (which he did not state) then why is he open carrying to start with?
    Did he read that wrong?
    Or does he not have a concealed carry license and he is just a dope with a lawyer that is laughing all the way to the bank?
    Do you really think the person read beyond the first line of that letter without ripping it up and tossing it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  4. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    I'm curious as to the requirement to have a concealed carry permit, in order to be able to open carry. That seems contradictory.

    Or, am I over thinking things?
     
  5. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    Well, we do have a right to face our accuser, and AFAIK - it's not limited to just court proceedings.

    Most people that report someone that is legally open carrying generally don't know anything about state or federal gun laws.

    However, no one really knows if the person carrying is legal to do so (basically, not a criminal), so erring on the side of caution isn't always bad.
     
  6. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i understand that, but if the person who called it in, left from the scene, i doubt that the LEO's will go through the effort of tracking them down. i could be wrong.

    IMO, open carrying when the vast majority don't and many don't understand the legalities of legal open carry, a person has to expect this to happen. and as long as LE does their job and abide by the laws and respect the rights of the person legally open carrying, i really don't see the problem.
     
  7. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

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    The way I understood it was that if ya dont have a CC, you can open carry. If ya have CC you must CC.
     
  8. gluuuek

    gluuuek New Member

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    My understanding

    My understanding is this:

    1. Many people don't understand what the gun laws are, especially those who are not gun owners. I can understand why someone would want to call the police and confirm everything is on the up and up. It seems that the letter can provide information to a lay person so they can know that what is happening is not a crime

    2. An officer cannot respond and make a stop without reasonable suspicion... openly carrying a firearm does not rise to the level of reasonable suspicion and any stop, is a violation of civil rights...

    3. I looked up that improper use statute and it states that a person is in violation of the law if they call 911 to report something other than what that person would reasonably believe to be a likely threat of severe bodily injury... calling the cops for open carry doesn't seem to fit that bill...

    Anyways that is just my opinion from the vid.
     
  9. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    If the 911 operator does the job properly, he/she will get as much contact info as they can.

    But, like you said, as long as LE is being professional.

    Personally, if open carry is legal and someone that lawfully owns a firearm wishes to open carry, I have no problem with it. I wouldn't. And not because of some tard that doesn't know the law.
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    1. are people suppose to hand them out to everyone? even many of that do know many of the firearm laws, don't know everyone of them. what if the pesron calling is from a different city or area?

    2. if someone has made a complaint or call about a person carrying a firearm openly, i think that the officer has his probable cause to follow up and check it out. if the person is doing so legally and he finds this out and goes on his merry way, i what way are your civil rights being violated?

    3. again i point out, that a person calling 911 when they observe a person carrying may have no knowledge of current gun laws, so IMO, that's not intention of falsely reporting criminal activities.

    just my thoughts about what you have posted.
     
  11. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    While all true, for the most part, it doesn't really fit here.

    Oregon City (and several others) have passed ordinances that ban open carry without a CCW. That said, anyone doing so is in violation (regardless of what the state law says). Cities can be more restrictive, and generally do make those restrictions based on the majority of citizens that support them - as opposed to "just because" like they do at the state and fed level.
     
  12. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    It depends on the state/city/town.
     
  13. gluuuek

    gluuuek New Member

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    I see what you are saying however,

    1. I think that if we have an opportunity to show gun owners that if you open carry you can be protected by the law then more people will responsibly do so. By having more responsible people open carry then it can shift public opinion and the stigma of guns in society. I think its important for people to see that guns are not scary.

    2. "Moreover, the Supreme Court rejected any suggestion that a report of illegal conduct justifies a stop and frisk: "[t]he mere fact that a tip, if true, would describe illegal activity does not mean that the police may make a Terry stop without meeting the reliability requirement." 529 U.S. at 273 n. The Court made no distinction between concealed criminal conduct and open, obvious criminal activity.... Finally, with regard to the Court of Appeals' reliance on the imminent danger to the public, the Supreme Court declined to carve out a "firearm exception" to its established reliability requirements for anonymous tips. J. L. 529 U.S. at 272. The Court stated that "an automatic firearm exception . . . would rove too far" because it "would enable any person seeking to harass another to set in motion an intrusive, embarrassing police search of the targeted person simply by placing an anonymous call falsely reporting the target's unlawful carriage of a gun." Jerald Jackson v. Commonwealth, 267 Va. 666, 672, 594 S.E.2d 595, 598 (2004).

    3. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse... If you call the police because you see a guy carrying his wallet and you think its a crime... then it would have violated the statute referenced in the video. A firearm is the same thing.

    I enjoy the conversation. thanks for your thoughts
     
  14. gluuuek

    gluuuek New Member

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    Well here is the Oregon City code... It doesn't ban open carry, it says you can't carry loaded.

    9.24.020 - Carrying or discharge of weapons

    A.

    It is unlawful for any person to carry a firearm, loaded or unloaded, in a park, school ground or public building.

    B.

    It is unlawful for any person on a public street or in a public place to carry a firearm upon his person, or in a vehicle under his control or in which he is an occupant, unless all ammunition has been removed from the chamber and from the cylinder, clip or magazine.
     
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    as there are tens of thousands of laws, i am pretty sure than many of us are ignorant of a few of them. and no, a firearm and a wallet are not the same thing. i seriously doubt people would be inclined to call 911 over a person carrying their wallet in their hand, but a pistol on their hip, it's quite possible.

    my point still is, if you are doing so legally, and are treated respectfully by LEO's, how are your rights being violated? and you can cite laws all day long, if they recieve a call, you can bet they are going to follow up in some manner. IMO, getting all upset, bent out of shape because you feel like your rights are being violated, is well acting immature and does nothing to furthering relations with the general public over our gun rights. it is my belief it hurts more than it helps. most of the YouTube videos i have seen, the person trying to trump up the officer, ends up looking like an immature jerk.
     
  16. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    Yes, but many people aren't going to be swayed no matter what, just because they hate guns. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change the minds of those people.

    Again, Oregon City (and others) have a ban on open carry UNLESS you are a holder of a concealed carry permit. So, if a call comes in, that gives them the authority to stop the person and ask to see his/her ccw.

    Ignorance of the law goes both ways. Regardless of the law, if someone is unsure about the lawfulness of someone's actions, they have every right to call the police.

    Works the same for those that wish to open carry. They need to know what the city/town ordinances are, not just state law.

    Basically, until such a time comes when open carry is either accepted or understood by everyone in that city/town, those that wish to open carry are going to have to wear their big girl panties and accept the fact that LE might stop them and ask to see their CC permit, and be very polite when dealing with the cops (as opposed to "I know my rights" bs that will never end well - because that usually turns into the gun owner officially becoming a public nuisance).
     
  17. jimogden1984

    jimogden1984 New Member

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    I agree, I can't stand youtube commandos. I oc from time to time myself and it sure as hell isn't too get attention, prove a point or start an argument with a leo to plaster on the Internet to show the world how awesome I am. People who do that imo give us all a bad name.
     
  18. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    That's just it. Your rights AREN'T being violated.

    People tend to not look at ALL of the laws when it comes to open carry. Remember that 18 (or 19) year old in Michigan, last year (I think)? Under state law, he could lawfully open carry his legally owned rifle, but he did so in a town that had ordinances saying no. And instead being polite with the police, he got all "I know my rights, you can't do this, I'm not showing you sh*t".
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    that's pretty much it in a nutshell Jim! it does nothing but create ill will towards gun owners and those who legally open carry that aren't looking to be a problem.

    well, i am of the belief that LEO's have pretty good memories, and a little ways down the road when he makes traffic stop on these types of idiots, his memory will remember how much of a jerk this person was before crying about his rights being violated. he'll just smile rather big while writing out all the infractions of the law that were violated!

    you would not believe how many tickets i have gotten out of by just being nice and treating the officer with repect and kindness.
     
  20. Mason609

    Mason609 New Member

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    Part A IS a ban...

    As for Part B... That gives any police officer the cause needed when responding to a call about someone with an openly carried firearm to stop the person.
     
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