Removing history from national cemeteries

Discussion in 'History' started by boatme98, May 25, 2020.

  1. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    It seems someone has stumbled upon 3 headstones in 2 national cemeteries that mark the final resting spot of 3 WW II German solders who died while POWs in the US.
    2 in Texas, 1 in Utah.
    The headstones have an iron cross with the symbol inside.
    Now they're saying the headstones must be removed because they symbolise hate.
    So far the VA, who administers the cemeteries has said, tough. National Cemeteries are sacred ground and no changes can be made.
    We'll see how this goes. Wether we approve of the fact that the symbol is there or not, if someone succeeds in removing them, then it's just a matter of time before they decide the CSA Cross if Honor has to go from Civil War headstones. Then how long until the Christian cross will fall, then the Star of David, then what? No recognition of the military dead at all?
    These people are nuts.
     
  2. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Not that it's right but some people simply HAVE to move things or remove things to prove they are powerful and relevant.
    Though moving stuff seldom changes facts or history.
     

  3. sheepdawg

    sheepdawg Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They're fixing to dig up Nathan Forrest and his wife to be put in a more politically correct site. They couldn't pay me enough money to mess with Forrest's grave no matter how I felt about him.
    If the revisionists will do that why would you believe anything is sacred?
     
  4. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

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    the prevailing perseverance of some citizens/groups to remove century olde historical monuments as well as documents all in a perception it will in some way result in changing history is absolutely ludicrous and personally not quite sure why it is succeeding or how to stop these activities to be honest!
     
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  5. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Headstones symbolize one thing: death of the person.

    What, people who happened to be German and (likely) conscripted into soldiery during WWII are supposed to be placed into unmarked graves only? All because some grouse about why their "leaders" started war upon others?

    IMO, that's the proper response. Tough toenails.

    It's history. It happened. There were indeed many who died who happened to be German, happened to be in uniform as soldiers at the time. A graveyard is the right and proper place for burials and the dead, along with suitable headstones or markers to indicate the spot.

    Symbolism is rough. People see in things all manner of issues. Take any symbol known, and there's going to be someone who gets in a froth over it. With Nazism and the sheer evil it exhibited, I can see the argument to refuse to put such overt Nazi symbols on things like headstones as well as anything in a public space. I just don't agree that erasure of it will fix anything. IMO, those taking "issue" with (whining about) such things should avert their eyes and get over it, acting as the adults they presumably are.

    Indeed if people can whip up a fervor to the point of forcing change on everybody, over symbolism, there's nowhere such complaining couldn't go. Symbols and indicators everywhere could be on the chopping block, if enough people grouse.

    Ignorant, foolish and dumb. One of the reasons "democracy" (mob rule) isn't the way we want to go.
     
  6. tac foley

    tac foley Well-Known Member

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    Here in the heart of England, at Cannock Chase, are the graves of 4929 German service personnel, from WW1 [2143] and WW2 [2786].

    [​IMG]
    To my certain knowledge, nobody has ever asked for them to be moved nor have they ever been desecrated or maltreated in any way.
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Much ado about nothing,

    A bunch of far left revisionist political hacks are stirring the pot. Sad that Republican political hacks see fit to tag long.

    Yep, the grave stones of the German POWs predate the designation as VA cemeteries.
     
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  8. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    425,000 German POWs were incarcerated in 700 POW camps during WWII. There were 51,000 Italian POWs in the US during WWII. The vast majority of those POWs worked on docks, bakeries, farms, ranches, as stevedores, etc.

    Nazi party members made up <10 percent of German POWs. Die hard Nazis were segregated and packed off to special camps.

    Folks who employed POWs paid the US government 45 cents per hour for their work. The POW got 80 cents per day. Many of these POWS formed lasting friendships with the locals with whom they worked. Some returned to live in the US.

    There was an Italian POW camp at Camp Dawson, WV. Most worked on farms. For some POWs it was like old home week, they had relatives living in WV.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/german-pows-on-the-american-homefront-141009996/
     
  9. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

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  10. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Link to the trash:

    "Outrage over the symbols representing Nazism is bipartisan. The push for action comes from U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Weston, and U.S. Rep. John Carter, R-Texas.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Wasserman Schultz is the chairwoman of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Military Construction, Veterans Affairs, and Related Agencies. Carter is the top Republican on the subcommittee, which oversees the budget for the Veterans Administration.

    Other signers of the letter are U.S. Rep. Nita M. Lowey, D-New York, and U.S. Rep. Kay Granger, R-Texas, the chairwoman and top Republican of the full Appropriations Committee."

    https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...aise-for-hitler-from-veterans-cemeteries/amp/
     
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  11. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I can never seem to get links to work.
     
  12. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    My Mother was a ward nurse for the camp's POW ward at Camp Crowder, MO, in 1945. Mostly German, Polish, and Italian POWs. She told me over the years that they were mostly grateful and many intended to stick around after being freed as they were treated so well and loved the country. If I recall correctly, she said many worked the local farms and loved it.

    She lost a few patients to rabies, trichinosis, pneumonia, and tetanus (I had more darn shots growing up as a kid than the average American and our pork chops were cooked to the consistency of shoe leather!). They are buried there. Not sure if the swastika was included on a gravestone, but I doubt it since most were not die-hard nazis. Most likely, the Christian cross and, possibly, the Iron cross. That POW cemetery is largely not maintained sadly, so headstone images aren't really available.

    Camp Crowder is also where my Mom and Dad met and became engaged (Dad was also stationed there as a Signal Officer). Love at first sight, as the saying goes.

    Mom spoke little of her life, sadly, but spoke much of her POW patients: her first and only experience with patients. And she spoke highly of them (much as a nurse would do) and I - from my earliest years - felt the sadness she felt for each and every lost patient. She was NOT going to lose me or my brothers from those horrific diseases!

    Headstones are very much a part of history - both the ugly and the good. Should I come across one with an "offensive" marking, I will respect that grave as much as any other, for it is in remembrance for the mortal remains six-feet under, not the nation he/she was fighting for, in many cases patriotically.

    Should this insanity continue, perhaps we should remove all Muslim headstone references...That'll go over well...
     
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  13. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Bite your tongue!!! (Gasp!) :eek::)

    ellis
     
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  14. tac foley

    tac foley Well-Known Member

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    My Aunt Ruby MARRIED a German POW. She was his physical therapist in the British military hospital and rehab centre he had been sent to. They were very happy together from early 1946 to February 1968, when he died following complications from a long-standing chest problem. He was from Dresden, brought up in an orphanage there and joined up in 1938. He was very proud of his 2nd and 1st Class EK and four close-combat awards - having gone through the war from the invasion of Poland in '39 right up until an American FGA strafed the almighty bejabbers out of the convoy he was in heading towards Dueren on the A57, just outside Moenchengladbach. It was very strange, back in 1977 when I was based in JHQ Rheindahlen, to think that I drove into work every day along that same stretch of road. Funny old world, eh?
     
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  15. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    When I was a Company Commander in Frankfurt in the early '80s, my 1SG was of German descent. We chatted a lot. Growing up in Frankfurt, as a young kid he was a member of the HitlerYouth - something kids tended to do in the late 1930s. When his Mom found out, she was VERY pissed and grounded him for weeks. He was too young to fight, but did join his fellow 'youth in policing up body parts after bombings: in metal baskets. He was very retrospect about all of that, and had some very fascinating stories about Frankfurt. It is hard to imagine what went through his mind as we drove through parts where less than 40 years earlier he was collecting up body parts. He was a good (and patriotic) "Top", and a proud American.
     
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  16. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Our US Army EOD program had an officer of German extraction who had been a member of the Hitler Youth. The compound in Germany held a masquerade party. The captain got a resounding reprimand for attending the party dressed in his Hitler Youth uniform.
     
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  17. RaySendero

    RaySendero Active Member

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    Me thinks it will take more hate to change the graves now,
    than ever was then to get them there!
     
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  18. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    To borrow the words of Sheriff Heck Tate to Atticus-
    "Let the dead bury the dead this time, Mr. Finch. Let the dead bury the dead.”.

    Near my home is a place where the Confederate Flag flies. Now and again, some SJW gets all torqued up about it. It is the burial grounds of 250 soldiers of the Confederacy that died at the Huguenot Springs military hospital.

    Like the Germans, that was the flag they fought under, and the flag they were buried under. Let the dead bury the dead.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    And I see the headstones have the Cross of Honor on them. I'm afraid those will have to go!
     
  20. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The desire to deny history goes back to days of old, when world-class libraries of irreplaceable books and documentation of mankind were burned in the squares by ignorant fools, both religious and political.

    It's difficult for a reasonable person to understand the mindset but they still exist in today's world. People with no talent or abilities and no appreciation of history will destroy beautiful statues in the park or buildings built by craftsmen skilled beyond anyone in today's world without a thought. Protesting a "history" of which they are most likely totally ignorant.

    Back to the subject at hand....suppose the winds of governments changed and there was a movement to remove the tombstones in American cemeteries across France because they were marked with the Cross, the Star of David, the American flag or any number of other symbols. What then?

    The word "Heathens" comes to mind.

    ellis