remington 700 .30-06 moa help

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by jeremyx28, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. jeremyx28

    jeremyx28 New Member

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    So I bought a new gun, titled. And need some help explaining moa. This is my first long range rifle so I never gave much thought to moa and what it actually means. I'm looking for a 1 piece picatinny scope base. I really like the look of the higher one, 20 moa description says opposed to the shorter mount that is 1 moa. Can anyone help me with what exactly this means? I hear that if you are shooting longer distance to go with the 1 moa mount, but if your sighting in your scope why would that matter? ......confused, thank you in advance for sharing you knowledge.
     
  2. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow New Member

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    If you sight in a gun with a high mount (40 mm objective) at 30 yards, it will shoot several inches high at 100 yards. In the case of your 30/06 it would be on zero at 30 and approximately 250 yards. It would shoot high anywhere in between 30 and 250 yards. (There are charts that give an exact trajectory) I hope this helps.

    Now is a real good time to find a Project Appleseed clinic in your area. Cooler weather brings out the more experienced instructors.

    http://appleseedinfo.org/
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012

  3. Triumphman

    Triumphman Active Member

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    You probably won't find any Picatinny bases for a Rem700. Just get a good, Company named base like Burris, Leupold or Weaver in either steel or aluminum and you'll be fine(unless Picatinny is really what's needed). These will probably also be as a 2-piece bases, but I've seen some 1-piece bases, but they were 10 times more costly. As to a scope mount in 1-piece, there's Burris PEPR(?), but this mount might not work due to the '06 being a LA(long action) and the PEPR for use on AR platforms and made for short scopes. Might check out Leupold as I believe they have 1-piece LA scope mounts.
    1MOA or 20MOA is referenced by scope mount Manufacturer's of casting in some sloping angle at front of scope mount, to canter the rifle's barrel up to strike at a greater distance without using up the scopes internal Elevation. So 1MOA is 1" high at 100yds and 20MOA is 20" high at 100yds. Sub-MOA is anything less than 1" @ 100yds. However, most rifles don't need this canter, as barrel droop is built into each rifle from Factory. Most rifles don't require such extreme MOA mounts if you're only shooting within 300yds(unless bad barrel mounting), but if shooting outwards to 1000 to 1500yds, then MOA mounts will/could be needed. It's called "Lobing a bullet".
    What you could also do to save some money without purchasing a 1-piece scope mount, is to purchase Burris Signature Zee scope rings. These offer a "no scratch" insert, but also(if purchased) some optional inserts that will give you up to 20degree scope adjustment with just some turns of the inserts. These inserts not only work for elevation, but also if rifle wants to shoot either left/right, these inserts adjust to take out the windage also to keep scope's crosshairs as centered as possible. Worth every penny for a cheaper cost on that expensive, long-range scope.
    Del
     
  4. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    The 20moa base is angled 20moa down as to give your scope 19 more moa in upward adjustment than the 1moa base offers. I use Burris Signature Zee rings which have inserts which also cant the scope downward.
     
  5. Khromo

    Khromo New Member

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    As I understand it, MOA is a unit of measurement, used to describe an angle. If you imagine a circle, and you cut it up like a pie, there are 360 degrees of arc in the full circle. There are 60 minutes in each of those degrees. If the circle has a radius of one hundred yards, then one MOA measures a hair over one inch at one hundred yards, about two MOA at two hundred yards, three inches at three hundred yards out..

    You often see the term MOA used to describe how accurate a rifle is. A gun that consistently shoots five shot groups of less than one inch at one hundred yards is often referred to as a "sub MOA" gun. My Mini 14, which shoots four inch groups at one hundred yards, might be called a "4 MOA" rifle. I have other names for that gun, but you didn't ask about that.

    The 20 MOA mount has a little tilt built into it so that you can use your scope for longer ranges (beyond 300 yards or more) without maxxing out the elevation adjustment. The higher the number of minutes of angle used to describe the base, the more tilt is built into the base, meaning it is intended to compensate for greater amounts of bullet drop at greater ranges before your scope adjustment maxxes out. It "points" to a slightly different elevation, the base itself is not neccesarily higher or closer to the bore, or longer or shorter in length.

    If you are using the rifle at more typical hunting ranges, the 20 MOA base is unneccesary.

    I'm not sure what they mean by a 1 MOA base. Most manufacturers call their standard base 0 MOA. I have a 700 sporter, and since it is built for hunting (normally at 300 yards or less) rather than long range target shooting, I put a standard or 0 MOA base on it. With handloads, it shoots under an inch at one hundred yards, making it a "sub MOA" rifle. With factory ammo, it shoots one and one-half to two inch groups at one hundred yards, making it a "two MOA" rifle, and accurate enough for most hunting.

    Have fun with your new rifle! Put a good scope on it!
     
  6. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    I have a Nikon Buckmaster 3-9 x 40 on my Rem 700 30-06. These are about $250 new. I get 1-1.5 groups off the bench with sandbags (not a shooting sled), using Remington Corelockt 150 grain factory ammo. I have a Bushnell Banner 3-9 x 40 on my Remington 742 Woodsmaster, also in 30-06. These are about $89 new. I get 1.5-2 inch groups with this, same ammo. The 742 is not as accurate a rifle as the 700. I am sure with hand-loading my 700 would be sub 1", 742 sub 1.5". But I hunt deer with these rifles, and that is more than good enough from the distances I shoot

    The Nikon is better glass, especially for farther out, but the new Bushnell scopes are pretty darn good, especially for that money. I always start low $$ and work my way up when doing something new. I was at the range a couple weeks ago shooting 200 yds, the guy next to me had a $3500 rig and could not hit paper - I was on-target with all of my shots - so remember, the shooter is the most important ingredient~!
     
  7. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow New Member

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    I have 2 30/06 BARs I have never mounted a scope on either one of them. I have missed some shots but I never felt that it was the fault of the gun or my equipment. The vast majority of my shots are at ranges of less than 50 yards. A scope would be a hindrance instead of an aid for most short range shots in heavily wooded areas. I do have a third rifle with a scope that I use to hunt fields and other open areas.
     
  8. jeremyx28

    jeremyx28 New Member

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    Thank you all for the info. This is not a hunting gun, its for long range target shooting. Being that I like the look of the 20moa mount better and it seems that it will serve my purpose better as well I think that's what I'm going with.
     
  9. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    What type of ranges are you planning on shooting?
    With most quality 30mm tube scopes,you can shoot pretty far without the need in a 20moa base,most have a decent amount of vertical adjustment.
    If you plan on shooting past 600,then they come in handy,but it will depend on the choice of optics that you plan to use.
    All of my LR scopes have 100moa of adjustment,most hunting style scopes have around 50moa of adjustment.You have to remember that number is from top to bottom adjustment of the reticle,so if the crosshair is centered in the reticle you have half as much adjustment available for adjusting your scope for long range shots

    For example,If you shot a Hornady 165gr SST bullet that had a velocity of 2960 fps you would need to adjust your scope an estimated 12.5moa at 600 yards with a 100 yard zero,and an estimated 31.1 moa if you were shooting at 1000 yards.
    http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

    With most hunting style scopes,adjusting it for a 600 yard shot is possible without using a 20moa rail or rings,but shooting farther will need a scope with more adjustability or a 20moa rail.

    Gunnut07 listed some good bases,I prefer to use Ken Ferrell bases but also use EGW and Weaver's picatinny style rail's on all of my rifles.
    I will only use Burris Signature Zee rings with any of my scopes.You can use the inserts to get 0moa,10moa,or 20moa without having a 20moa rail on your rifle.These rings will also keep your scopes from getting marked/scratched from the rings.

    If you are really wanting to shoot at longer ranges,you really don't want to cheap out on the optics for your rifle.My cheaper ones start in the $750-800 range and go up to the $2k range.You can't shoot,what you can't see!
     
  10. jeremyx28

    jeremyx28 New Member

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    I don't shoot at typical ranges. My family owns 300 acres in a very rural town and also 85 acres in another more mountainous rural town. I shoot at both pieces of property. I'm not a competitive shooter, I do it with friends and family for my own enjoyment....and to get a few hours away from the wife and kids. Ultimately I would like to be able to hit a man sized target @1000 yards but I'm a ways away from that both in experience and money. I'm currently saving for a scope, don't know what kind yet because I won't even start looking till I have at least $500 saved up. The only thing I do know is that I want a 50mm objective. No particular reason other then I like the looks of a big beefy scope. The reason I want a 20moa base is like I said, I plan on eventually shooting longer distances and I really just like the looks of it better due to the fact that the gun is going to be sitting in an xlr chassis and I need the clearance for the hand guard with a 50mm objective.
     
  11. TCH2FLY

    TCH2FLY New Member

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    I have an XLR and a 20MOA base reduces your clearance over the hand guard. You will most likely need to have it trimmed to fit as well so the looks shouldn't be a big part of the decision. You will need to get the proper ring height to clear the guard.
    That being said I think a 20 MOA base is a good choice for your needs
     
  12. jeremyx28

    jeremyx28 New Member

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    I was gonna go with high ring. I figured I would need them. The xlr comes with the adjustable cheek piece, so I figured I would be able to get the proper height. What size rings do you use with your rifle and the xlr?
     
  13. TCH2FLY

    TCH2FLY New Member

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    The ring height will vary slightly based on the measurements of the action and size of the scope tube. I would suggest you choose the height based on the actual measurement not just "high" or "medium" etc. (One manufacturer's "high" is another's "medium" or "extra-high").

    I have a Savage action and a 34mm scope tube with 50mm objective (with an actual outside dimension of 57mm) I use Badger 1.125 high rings and have 1/4" gap between the lense caps and the guard.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. jeremyx28

    jeremyx28 New Member

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    I ordered a vortex viper 6.5-20x50, paid $459 with free shipping. I also found a set of x-high 30mm blackhawk rings at cabelas bargain cave the other day for $19. I ended up going with the standard weaver base, if I need the 20moa I can always return the base. Now its just waiting for my scope and stock to get here. Should have everything done in a week or so, will update then.
     
  15. TCH2FLY

    TCH2FLY New Member

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    Good scope choice in that price range, I think you should consider lapping those rings.
    I'm also curious because said earlier you planned on the XLR chassis ... you ordered one and it will be here in a week? because if not and you are only planning to order one, expect more than a week for delivery(most people wait 6-8 weeks)
     
  16. jeremyx28

    jeremyx28 New Member

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    I had to scratch the xlr idea due to money reasons. I ordered a blackhawk knoxx axiom for now cause its only 150 bucks. Gonna start saving for an xlr after Christmas...
     
  17. jeremyx28

    jeremyx28 New Member

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    Could you explain what you mean by lapping the rings? I'm not familiar with the term.
     
  18. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czbriA7tvus"]Gunsmithing - How to Lap Scope Rings Presented by Larry Potterfield of MidwayUSA[/ame]