Remanufactured Ammo damages pistol

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Jimmyshot, Apr 26, 2014.

  1. Jimmyshot

    Jimmyshot New Member

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    My student was firing my Sig P938 using 9mm remanufactured ammo from
    3-D Inv. Inc. Doniphan NE when the cartridge split open and backfired. It blew the factory grip on the right side to pieces and she was hit in the face by flying debris. Smoke was coming out of the pistol. I had instructed her to wear glasses but she didn't. The brass cartridge, near the base, had a ruptured split in it. I have never seen this before. I am an NRA Pistol Instructor and NC Certified Firearms Instructor, former Law Enforcement. This could have taken her eye out and was a severe example of not wearing safety glasses. I will never again use remanufactured ammo.
     
  2. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I had a gun wrecked with factory ammo. Apparently a very hot load possibly a double charge on one round in the box. Gun went bang, bang, bang and boom. No squib to plug the barrel. Similar to what you are describing. It can happen so are you going to stop shooting factory loads too? I have shot many thousands of rounds of commercial reloads and stuff I reloaded with out a problem. I will not shoot a reload someone has done in his garage especially my SILs. I have had more screw ups with factory ammo than reloads.
     

  3. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    The big difference in factory ammo is the company is adequately insured and they issue a recall when the mistake is found. Remanufacturers usually have a poor communication network, so you may never hear about their recall.
     
  4. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    If you are able to identify the brand, load, lot/batch number I'd certainly contact the mfg and pass back the information. The information should be on the inside flat of the box. See what they say.
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    any ammo has the potential to have problems, whether it be factory, remanufactered, or reloads done personally.

    i would do as suggested and contact the manufacterer of the ammo and give them all the information. they may even reimburse you for the damages to the pistol.
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Jimmy- first, welcome to the forum. When you get a minute, stop by the intro thread and say howdy.

    Ref: Remanufactured ammo, and 3 D- I have shot a ton of commercially remanufactured ammo, with no more or less failures than new. 3D was a large player, and has been around for over 25 years. There is a phone listing for them in Doniphan, but can't hookup to their website- they MAY have closed or been bought.

    Sounds like a ruptured cartridge case- which could have several possible causes. I WOULD get in touch with them, if you can. And YES- this is why you wear "eyes and ears" when shooting anything. Bear in mind that Winchester and Remington have both had ammo recalls recently- found some rounds had a double powder charge (Whooops!:eek:) It can happen to any maker.

    I am not uncomfortable shooting commercially re-manned ammo. Amateur handloads? Only my own.
     
  7. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    To me, the bigger foul is the failure to follow established safety rules. The case failure is why such rules exist. It would appear that your student got a cheap lesson in PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) use. The rule needs to be: No Ear & Eye protection, no shooting, no exceptions.
    As for the case failure: excrement occurs. Brand new ammo has problems too. Any product is only as good as the quality control of the manufacturer that day, ammo is no exception.

    • It could have been a manufacturing defect/impurity or some such issue that survived the first use of the case, but wasn't willing to tolerate a second.
    • It could have been originally fired in a pistol without full case support (1st & 2nd gen Glocks being the most egregious. Commonly referred to as "Glocked" brass.) Such brass is not exactly rare & it's possible one slipped past the brass inspection process. It's commonly recommended, pretty much everywhere, that brass in this condition (guppy shaped) not be reloaded. Resizing it to spec overworks it, causing it to become brittle/weak.
    • If it was an overcharge, it's probably better that the case failed rather than the pistol - much bigger chunks flying around.
    Aside from the sacrificial grip panel, was the pistol actually damaged?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  8. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I had some remanufactured ammo, what I did notice was that more than a few had the bullet set back to far in the case something to look for.
     
  9. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    Yet another reason to hate glock.
     
  10. RKB

    RKB Active Member

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    Why did you ALLOW a student to shoot w/o glasses?
     
  11. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    3-D Ammunition Inc.

    Address:
    112 W Plum St.
    Doniphan, NE 68832

    United States
    Phone: (402) 845-2285

    Fax: (402) 845-6546

    http://business.highbeam.com/company-profiles/info/641744/3-d-ammunition-inc

    ============

    Looks like they are sold from this store:

    Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore
    http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/

    ============

    One of the reviews of the .38 spl ammo was as recent as April 11, 2014. Sold through Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore

    4 star ranking star ranking star ranking star ranking star ranking
    nothing fancy but cheap shooting
    by john from Detroit, MI on April 11, 2014

    Kind of dirty and the boxes have a tendency to fall apart in shipping. They shoot fine though. Put a couple hundred rounds through different guns and no problems so far.

    However, it does not appear 3D Ammo is still around.
     
  12. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When my gun went boom I called the mfg and all I got was a runaround. No one was hurt and the best I could hope for was a replacement gun. I did not even get that. They just pushed it off as a defective gun which it was not. It was just one load out of the box that was bad. It was a new box of 230 grain fmj 45ACP and not +P. It was an aluminum framed 1911 officer sized pistol. I was qualifying for my CCW and had fired (3) 6 round mags and was on the 4th when it went boom. No indications of anything wrong. No parts blew off but it was broke. I was actually surprised it held together and so was the trainer. I finished up with a full size 1911 and different ammo. I have not used any of that loading since. I was not affiliated with any group at the time, I had no clout. If I or some one had been hurt there would have been lawyers involved.
     
  13. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I am an IDPA Safety Officer. I do not allow people to observe without eye and ear protection. I would DQ someone for refusing to wear proper safety equipment.
     
  14. Hookeye

    Hookeye Active Member

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    So much fail in the OP, and not just about ammo.
     
  15. FernandoTheCommando

    FernandoTheCommando New Member

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    A certified instructor allowed a student to shoot while lacking eye protection? It's up to you as an instructor to make sure your students are safe when taking a class. Why would anyone allow someone to shoot with no eye protection. Sounds like the shooter was taking chances she shouldnt have. As for the ammo, I agree with what others said. It could unfortunately happen with even factory loads. I'm going to stop typing though because I'm legimately disturbed that a certified instructor allowed a student anywhere NEAR a range with no eye protection.
     
  16. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's something I don't see at the range here, ear protection yes eye protection no. It does make sense to use eye protection.
     
  17. Jimmyshot

    Jimmyshot New Member

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    3-D Manufacturing

    The phone number for 3-D is no longer in service and there is no listing for them in NE. I have written to BATF about the incident.
     
  18. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I help on the range for a CCW class I have experienced 2 squibs in my 42 years and both were recently neither of which were mine . One of which was on some reload .38 which was supposed to be factory ammo only at this class. The second a rifled slug in a shot gun factory Remington load . Last saturday I had my first squib in my own gun . I did not notice from the shooters position that it didnt go bang . #1 Im half deaf anyway and #2 I had on hearing protection to keep what hearing I have left usable. I did notice that it didnt have alot of recoil and that it did not eject the case . I waited about 10 seconds dropped the mag and peeked into the barrel to see if their was any light . No light . SO I pulled the slide off , took out the barrel and here it is .
    It can happen with any ammo ,whether its loaded at home or factory ammo . This just happened to be Hornady factory match grade ammo . I knocked it out and grabbed a different brand of ammo and continued on for another 100 rds . The squibs I have heard on the range from the side I have heard this ppsssssttttt sound from the shooter position of my own squib all I heard was the bang . Before I knocked the round out I wanted to see if the round in the barrel was deep enough that another would have chambered . I put one round in the mag dropped the slide and it came up short , roughly 1/4" from closing . You must always be aware of whats going on , I know its hard when there are other people around you also shooting . Safety gear is a must . Nobody hits the CCW range without hearing and eye protection , If you dont have it on you dont shoot . Its pretty simple

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    The first command a safety officer is supposed to give is "Range is hot, eyes and ears". Everyone in the area must wear eye and ear protection. I would refuse to start the shooter even if an observer were not wearing proper eye protection. As a safety officer that is my responsibility. As an instructor, that is also the OP's responsibility. There is no excuse for unsafe behavior at a supervised range.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
  20. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've used tons of 3D ammo when I was an active instructor. Never had a problem.

    But I would also disqualify any officer that tried to get away with a safery violation.

    One old Sgt told me once that shooting glasses gave him "tunnel vision."

    I told him that was his problem, not mine. But the range was mine!:D