Rem 700 vs.

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Crazyape, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Crazyape

    Crazyape New Member

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    I am looking onto a deer rifle and a long range target rifle. I see a lot on the rem 700 in military, police and hunting. I read that it has "the smoothest action and trigger available". I am fond of products that are commonly used for parts availability reasons and general familiarity. My question is does it compare to some thing like a Kimber rifle or a Savage of the same price range. The second part of my question would be ammo, 300 win mag vs 30-06 or 308. I have looked into ballistics on them but I am curious about real world application and usage on deer. Thanks for any input.
     
  2. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    as a general rule, target rifles and hunting rifles are two different types of rifles, each with a specific function. yes they can and are used interchangeabily by some people, but not to their full potential when used as the rifle was designed for.

    as for the brands you suggested, all of them are great rifles with great reputations for quality and accuracy. the smoothness of the action doesn't aid in accuracy at all. the vast majority of a rifles accuracy comes from the quality of the barrel and it's rifling.

    the huge factor of many people, the military and LE agencies using the M700 rifles and actions is the aftermarket support in parts and accessories for them. the Savage has about the same aftermarket support as the Remington does and Savage has expanded their line-up of available options in types of rifles available directly from them. the Kimber is a reat rifle, but i am not aware of any aftermarket support in parts and accessories for them.

    of the ammo choices you listed, the 308 and the 30-06 would serve most hunters need in a hunting round, and both have excellent choices available in factory ammo for just about any hunting or shooting needs a person might have. IMO, the 300 W.M. would be a bit much for most deer hunting unless stepping out to longer distances that were very open and not being able to get in closer for a shot.

    personally, i would think about having two rifles, each suited to it's intended purpose, rather trying to make one rifle fill both roles.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    The 700 doesn't have the smoothest action. That would be the territory held solely by the winchester model 70. Smooth action isn't a term I would use to describe a 700 or any other push feed action.

    I would go with a savage over a reemington 700 any day. Easier and cheaper to make stupid accurate with no need for chamber reaming to switch barrels. In the bolt gun world the savage 10/110 is the ar15 lego system of bolt guns. The savage accutrigger system is just as good as any custom trigger system and easy to work on. There is nothing on a savage that isn't diy without the need of a gunsmith.


    The 700 became popular because it was cheap. If it was coming out today against current savage rifles it would be laughed off the shelves. It holds its place purely through nostalgia.

    Hunting and target shooting are different things. Polar opposites. While you can do both with either neither lends itself well to the other discipline.
     
  4. MOshooter

    MOshooter New Member

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    Crazyape welcome to the forum,you stubbled onto a great forum full of knowledge.

    To give advice on which caliber would be best for deer hunting or long range target shooting,you need to give us more information.
    For starters what type of terrain will you be deer hunting,is it wide open 300+ yard shots or dense woods hunting where a 100 yards is a long shot? Also define what long range target shooting to you? 300 yds or 1000 yds?.

    Are you looking for a deer hunting rifle you can take to the range to work on your rifle skills,or a full pledged designated long range target rifle? A hunting rifle and a designated long range target rifle are completely different platforms.
     
  5. Crazyape

    Crazyape New Member

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    I would say 300 to 400 yard is about the longest shot I will get on a deer, and as far as "long range" shooting that is probably about the limit now also. My dad has a Savage 110 in 30-06 and the action on it seems very loose and feels cheep.
     
  6. MOshooter

    MOshooter New Member

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    Crazyape,

    300-400 yard deer hunting I would look into a 308 or 30-06.
    The 300 WM is a fine cartridge,just way more than needed for hunting deer at your stated hunting distance,also a 308 or 30-06 would make a good 300-400 yard hunting rig as well as a good target round.

    As far as rifles,it really boils down to what you like and works well for you.

    The best way to do that is go to local gun shops and really look over all the brands,shoulder the rifles,work the bolts,safeties,and if allowed the triggers to see what you like and don't like.
    There's a lot of excellent bolt action rifles on the market to choose from.

    Most of my BA rifles are older Remingtons,which were known as the poor mans rifle that turned out be very reliable and accurate hunting rifles. I also have a Savage 110 30-06 that's a very nice solid hunting rig.

    I just grew up on the Remington firearms hunting,and have had good results with reliability and accuracy through the 40+ years hunting/shooting. With that said,I was checking out some of the newer BA rifles on the market a couple weeks ago,the rifle that really caught my attention?. A new Winchester model 70 Featherweight,chambered in 7mm-08 or 308 imo would make a perfect whitetail rifle.
     
  7. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    I would go with a 30-06 and a "looser" action in the field is better than a "tight" action when it comes to dirt and rain. I run a .300 WM with a Remington receiver for a 1000+ yard target rifle and it weighs 17.1 lbs. with scope and 5 rounds in magazine. I would not lug this weight around while hunting and conversely, I would not use a much lighter rifle for long range target shooting.

    The major problem you will have with a hunting contour barrel for target shooting is, as you are shooting repeated back to back rounds, the barrel heats up and "wow's" just enough to keep changing your point of impact.
     
  8. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Crazy,

    First of all a lot will depend on your decision on what is most important to you.
    The 300 is a good round no doubt. It also has the most recoil of the three. However ammunition costs a lot more and may not be as available as the 308 or 30-06 at all stores throughout the country. For true long range it obviously would be a great choice for shots on most game over 300 yards.
    However the 308 and 30-06 are good rifles for ranges 300 and under on game.
    As far as the rifles being the Remington 700 and the Savage normally the 110 series rifles for hunting. Both rifles are very accurate and would certainly do the job you mentioned. In my opinion both rifles have their individual advantages. In my opinion the Remington 700 has the smoother action of the two. But factory out of the box the Savage has the best trigger with the Accutrigger system. The Remington 700 has an OK trigger but is best tuned by a factory service center to be as good as the stock Savage Trigger. I have both rifles at the present. But my favorite hunting rifle is the Model 700 CDL Remington in 7MM Remington Magnum since I hunt in Texas a lot and longer shots are the norm. Either rifle would make you a great hunting rifle. And the 308 is a good choice due to the least recoil of the other two calibers and as the 30-06 ammunition is easy to get in what ever range you want. From lighter bullets for varmints to deer and the 30-06 for larger game at longer ranges. Good luck on your decision. As I stated it boils down to a personal preference in the end.

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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  9. Crazyape

    Crazyape New Member

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    Thanks to everyone you have all helped and given me some things to consider.
     
  10. kytowboater

    kytowboater Active Member

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    Check out the Remmington Sendero.
    Very accurate rifle.
     
  11. Ishooter

    Ishooter New Member

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    The 308 gives up 100 F.P.S. in most loadings compared to the 30-06 using the same size bullet. The 300 W.M. has about 300 F.P.S. over the 30-06. All three have been used by the military. They currently only use the 308 and the 300. All three rounds are good well past 400 yards for taking deer. The 308 has the least recoil.

    The rifle is highly personal. As some one above stated you need to try out rifles to see what works for you. Also as has been stated above a target rifle isn't a hunting rifle and a hunting rifle isn't a target rifle.

    I have a model 700 that is in 308 that I had the pencil barrel replaced with a magnum contour 20" barrel and it made a world of difference in the accuracy and comfort of shooting the rifle. The number of shots it took before it started to open up groups was extended. If you keep the barrel from heating up it will shoot under .75" at 100 yards. It isn't hard to carry because it only weighs 8.5 pounds with a scope. The farthest I have shot it so far is 200 yards. The best group I have come up with is a little over 3". That isn't bad for a hunting rifle but sucks for a target rifle.

    I also have a Savage model 11 in 243. It is a tack driver, but I am with you the feel of the bolt and looks are sad. The thing of it is it works. So when I get an other rifle It will probably be a Savage. You don't have to have a gunsmith to change a barrel on a Savage and you do a Remington, well on most of them anyway. Cost wise a good Savage such as with the good stock and adjustable trigger cost as much as the Remington.

    Is what you will have to decide is how much do you want to carry as far as the weight of your rifle goes. That will decide for you on how heavy a barrel you will have and that will tell you how much of a target rifle you will have. Accuracy isn't a problem for any weight barrel. It is the fallow up number of shots that can be made with out the impact moving. The heaver the barrel the less it moves. Remington came up with the idea of making a triangle barrel to make it stiffer and less weight. I know a guy that has one and likes it. He gets under an inch with five shots. He claims it will do that all day long. He only shoots factory rounds so I think it would do better with some hand loads.

    So it comes down to the heaver the barrel the more shots you will be able to place on the target. A hunter only has to place one shot on target to take his game. Target shooting you may have to put 40 rounds on target. That is why everyone is telling you need two rifles. I don't know any one that wants to hunt with a bull barreled rifle weighing 12 pounds or better.

    I have learned over the years that the supper light rifles are not for me, I can't shoot them. Don't get me wrong I don't want a really heavy one either. To much to carry up and down hills with the other gear I carry. For me and this is just me, a rife weighing some where between 8 to 10 pounds with scope is the most I want to carry and I can shoot it from a rest or off hand. Most of the rifles I have go around 8 pounds. Good luck with what ever you decide. I hope the information I gave you was of help.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  12. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    You can't go wrong with a 700 in 30-06. For the ranges you are looking at that would be my choice, if not 7mm Rem Mag
     
  13. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    that's why the military keeps buying them for sniper rifles I suppose :rolleyes:
     
  14. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I wouldn't worry about shooting game at ranges over 300 yards. When you shoot game you are not at a rifle range where everything is controlled and you have a nice bench to shoot from. You will be shooting from an improvised rest if you have a rest at all. You will be estimating the range of your target. Stalking to a better position is always an option.
     
  15. boredintr

    boredintr New Member

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    Look into the 308 its a good caliber cheap amo and well suited to the 300 yard shots you were talking about .also not mentioned here is the 243 its a good deer rifle to start out with light recoil


    Boredintr on Firearms Talk
     
  16. Anna_Purna

    Anna_Purna New Member

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    With each of us behind the wheel, I'd be willing to put this up against your 700 any day of the week, CrazyApe ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    Savage uses a "floating" bolt head,that's why they feel sloppy. Nothing wrong with the rifles.
     
  18. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    At those ranges it all comes down to personal preference. A 30/06 or .308 will work fine and both are just about equal (I use both). As for the rifles, it again comes down to personal preference. IMHO the Savages are easier to tinker with which is a huge plus if you like experimenting but the Remington's are a much more solid and dependable rifle. Yes you will have to go to a gunsmith if you want to change the barrel but you will never ever have a problem with that barrel either.

    As for the smoothest action that would be a Winchester model 70 which is in my opinion the best bolt action rifle ever made (pre 64 or current classic) all though the in between years were still nice rifles. But they have never been cheap. And as for quality in general Remington's and Savages have never really been considered the highest quality rifles out there. Both have always been the reliable blue collar work horses of the gun world sort of like Ford and Chevy in the car world. The Kimber and Sako would be more like Audi and Mercedes and the Winchester is so far ahead of everything else there is no comparison in the car world (IMHO). Remington's and Savages general aren't fancy but they get the job done. They just go about it in slightly different ways. If a Savage breaks it's no problem because they are easy to work on. Remington's just don't break. :D

    Kimber always made a really nice rifle and Anna'a beloved Sako's have also always been really nice. In terms of overall quality the pre 64 and current classic Model 70 Winchester is the only standard production rifle I would rate above Kimber and Sako but that's just off the top of my head. I would also put Browning ahead of Remington and Savage (not the x-bolt). Now with all that said, I hunt with Remington's. They aren't the prettiest or smoothest but they are rock solid and have put a lot of deer in my freezer over the years. And I would be proud to carry a Savage in the woods as well because they really are good accurate rifles, I just prefer Remington's. :)
     
  19. 762

    762 Member

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    a .308 is plenty just for deer and it's a good target shooting caliber as well.

    as far as platform, that's a ford vs chevy argument. i've never had a problem with a remington 700 action. no it isnt the smoothest, but it gets the job done. if a savage is so badass and cheap, why do precision rifle builders always use remington actions?

    i have a remington 700P that i use for hunting and target shooting. it's about 13 lbs loaded with my suppressor. it's not that bad to lug through the woods....for now. i'm 30 so i think i can do it for a good while longer. it's also good for target shooting too. with some nice pricey match ammo, it'll shoot 2-3" groups at 400 yards...if i do my part. i'm fairly inconsistent though. i dont shoot enough.


    that being said, have you thought about an AR10? these days, the semi's are almost as accurate as bolt guns, especially out to 400 yards. they get pricey real quick though.
     
  20. Crazyape

    Crazyape New Member

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    Thanks for all the responses you all have made very good points and I greatly appreciate all of them. As far as an ar-10 it sounds like a good option. A little heavier the a BA rifle and a bit more pricy then a standard BA rifle. I am not limited to a Rem or Savage I just see a lot of 700s in custom builds. With what has been said here I have been looking at Mossberg, Ruger and other rifles too. My local GS doesn't carry much of a selection, I think it will be worth the hour drive to get my hands on some of these rifles. Thanks again everyone!!!