reload problem

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by jjfuller1, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    so ive pumped out about 300 reloads of .223 shot about 240 of em. this morning my wife encountered my first mistake. from what i can gather she inserted a round, it failed to fire and was stuck in the chamber. she cleared that and inserted another round. this round jammed going into the chamber. holding the bolt partially open. at this point the bolt wouldnt move either direction. took a pair of pliers and some muscle to get the round ejected. the first round that misfired had the bullet pushed the shell. and thus there was powder in the chamber area. this is why i think caused the second jam.
    notice there is also no primer strike on the round that got pushed in.

    target is after the jam my wifes 30 rnds at 50yds

    do you think this means my crimp is not tight enough?
    or could the OAL have been too long?
    and why when the second one jammed. would it take that much force to move the BCG to the rear?
     

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  2. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    I don't think its a overall Length problem. If they went into the magazine with no problem, the length is good. But it does look like a non existent crimp on the round in the picture. My next question is "Who put the dent in that second round ?" I'm not an AR expert, but I do reload a lot of .223. If the dent was in the case before it was attempted to be chambered, its a non issue, but something put the dent in it and it took some force to do that. Next question to you is "Was all of the brass correctly trimmed to size before reloading ?" If these two rounds are shorter than all of the others, then there is the reason why they are not crimped.
     

  3. masterPsmith

    masterPsmith New Member

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    When loading for any semi-auto rifle, it is a must to have the bullet crimped. The condition you encountered can be catastrophic as you will see below. When I load .223/5.56 for my Mini or an AR, they are loaded using a slightly undersize (.001") expander ball and using a taper crimp for a tight bullet grip. The photo below shows what can happen and did happen to one of my customer's AR about 18 years ago. The same condition, except the round fully chambered and fired. It exploded the upper, ballooned the lower and exploded the magazine. He did receive several minor injuries and was lucky that was all.

    Jim............

    I knew I kept the upper parts all these years for a reason !!!!!!!!!!!!
     

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  4. W. C. Quantrill

    W. C. Quantrill New Member

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    I think right here is why I dont shoot reloads in the AR or the Mini. After using the pencil on the Big Chief Tablet, I came out with the idea that I could buy imported ammo at a lesser cost than the components to reload,,,and so I have been leaving the empties lay where they fall.
     
  5. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    A firm crimp is important for many self loading rifles. You seem to have NO crimp.

    Yes W.C. you can buy cheap import ammo for less than you can buy quality components. If all you want to do is shoot cheap ammo, go ahead. If you want quality ammo for about the same money, Handload. My "cheap" plinking load will shoot sub MOA all day long. Not even "good" milsurp or "white box" ammo will do that.
     
  6. W. C. Quantrill

    W. C. Quantrill New Member

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    I have a complete reloading bench with 4 dedicated presses and all the "stuff". My cheap import ammo does just fine, I do a lot of shooting, but it does not require sub MOA, MOA works just fine for what I need. I reload a lot of ammo as you must guess, but I dont reload 5.56, nor do I reload 9mm. It is more economical to use the import for those 2 cartridges. I do reload for my business rifles though. They are used long range, and must kill on the first shot. My M700 will shoot sub MOA with my reloads. I just dont need sub moa for day in and day out coyotes!!!!!!
     
  7. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    Trimmed no. Measured yes. All the brass was under the trim length so I didn't trim
     
  8. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    I will play with my crimp adjustments the next time at the bench
     
  9. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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  10. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    One of the problems with this is inconsistent length. Even though they are under max length, differing lengths cause inconsistent crimps. I trim all .223 cases to "trim length" and set the Lee Factory Crimp Die to make a consistent crimp.
     
  11. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    I almost did but a lot of them measured under the trim to length. My book said trim to was 1.750 and the cases were about 1.743 to 1.748
     
  12. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    Just out of curiosity, do those bullets have a crimp grove (I know it's called something else but I'm not about to try and spell it)?
     
  13. tri70

    tri70 New Member

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    You may try turning the seating die down slightly, maybe 1/16 of a turn and press the shoulder down. This will help give a tighter roll crimp as well. You always want a slight crush against the shoulder when loading for semi auto.
     
  14. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    update

    well i went and pulled all my .223 reloads. for kicks i figured id give em a once over. i took about a dozen and measured COL, it was fine. tightend my seating die to give it a little more crimp. k. then compared it to a comercial round. . then i got the brilliant idea. ill run em through my rifle by manually cycling them.. i did the commercial rounds to get a control group.. then ran my reloads that i had just played with.. about a third of them 3-4 rounds. would still not chamber and eject correctly.. so i got to playing a little. it appeares for some reason the shells didnt get a complete sizing and towards the base they are slightly expanded. this is making them hit the chamber walls and not chamber. then giving me a hard time ejecting because the ejector is not in the right spot... so i just went through and cycled all my reloads. sorted out the ones that cycled properly and the ones that wouldnt. out of about 120 rnds. 24 would not cycle. now im curious as to why this would of happened. perhaps my die loosened up near the end of the sizing process and not getting the 24 rnds done correctly? i think this is the most logical option... but i am OCD and tend to check my dies every couple of rounds. so i cant see that happening... any other ideas??
     
  15. masterPsmith

    masterPsmith New Member

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    Use the small base sizing die and full length resize the cases when reloading for a semi auto. That will solve your chambering problem.

    Jim..........
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2012
  16. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is well known to anyone who reads this board that I am not a fan of LEE products.

    However, having said that, I use the LEE factory crimp die on all semi-auto ammo. It works!:)
     
  17. Innovative

    Innovative New Member

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    Measure your handloads ...

    jjfuller1 .......

    I recommend measuring the ID of your cases. The case necks should be cleaned with a bore brush and then FL resized to .221" This will provide ideal bullet tension. There's no need to crimp the .223 Remington case if you FL resize accurately. The SB die is rarely needed, and if used (when not needed) it causes more problems than it solves.

    Your "feeding" symptom is different from a chambering problem. The odds are very good that your magazine lips are releasing your rounds at a bad angle. That jams during feeding, and it dents the case as the bullet tip slams into the barrel extension.
     
  18. W. C. Quantrill

    W. C. Quantrill New Member

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    This is not one of my cases, but from a box of attempts by a former tenant of my house, to reload. These are R-P cases, and what is going on here is that he had his seating/crimp die turned in about a half a turn too far, and crushed the shoulders.
    [​IMG]

    The point being, that the crimp die is pretty sensitive, and a little adjustment makes a lot of difference.

    I would have stopped and adjusted after the first one, but this fellow apparently thought it would cure itself and did about 30 rounds like this. This box of "goodies" that I found in my basement, contain samples of everything that a reloader should never ever do.
     
  19. Innovative

    Innovative New Member

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    That's a good one!

    However, I think I can top that.
    How about this one?

    [​IMG]

    A friend of mine calls this the .223 Rem. "accordian" round. He made this with a Dillon RL550 progressive press.
    There are a series of adjustments that ALL need to be set correctly before cranking out handloads.
    He stopped to read the instructions after making just one of these. Ha Ha
    Just when you think you've seen them all . . . . . .
     
  20. culdee

    culdee New Member

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    the only time I had chambering problems was with the crimp die moved down to far like the others said. If it is a small amount it may not be obvious but it bulges the shoulder just enough to make it too fat to chamber. I personally do not crimp my 223 at all and have not had any problems with bullet setback.Maybe I'm just lucky to have good feed ramps.