Regarding the 1911 Barrel are Ramped and Throated the same thing?

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by CAMCHAMPION1988, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. CAMCHAMPION1988

    CAMCHAMPION1988 Member

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    I got a 1911 a (RIA GI 70 series i bought new back in 2011) anyways i recently had it reparkerized,Trigger job weight reduction and the barrel "Ramped" But just wondering if Ramping the Barrel and Throating the barrel are the same thing??? i have heard the two terms kind of overlapping eachother with no real differention between the two from people at the gunshop or on the forums. Also can you guys provide some photos of a ramped 1911 barrel vs a throated 1911 barrel
     
  2. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    here ya go! first picture, ramped barrel, vs. a non-ramped barrel in a 1911 pistol.

    second picture, a throated barrel.

    ramped refers to a style or type of barrel. most 1911's in 45 ACP are non-ramped barrels in OEM configuration. a 45 ACP is fat and usually easy to feed cartridge, and from the original design of John Browning, it was designed to feed 230 gr. "hardball" or FMJ ammo. many years later, people wanting to use more modern JHP SD ammo found feeding issues with the non-ramped barrels. so some of the earlier barrels were "throated" to help them feed JHP ammo and SWC target ammo much better.

    going to ramped barrel in 1911 with a non-ramped barrel, requires making a ramped relief cut for clearance in the frame. not a job for a backyard DIYer! requires a milling machine and special cutters to do properly. barrel 001.jpg barrel 002.jpg
     

  3. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    what I am curious about is why did you have the barrel ramped or throated? were there feeding issues of some sort? did someone suggest it needed to be done?

    from my own past experiences with 1911's over the past almost forty years, I have found very, very few ever needed such a modification done to them. as matter of fact, many developed feeding issues after being ramped or throated!
     
  4. CAMCHAMPION1988

    CAMCHAMPION1988 Member

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    Yeah so it was not feeding hollow points maybe once in a while it would whether it be live fire or just racking the slide back and forth by hand. That is why i had the Feed ramp on the Frame polished and recently the Barrel ramped or throated or whatever the proper terms are. Can you tell me based on these 3 pictures of my Rock Island Barrel GI .45acp (factory barrel all 3 pics are of the same barrel btw) now that it was "Ramped" which is what this gunsmith i took it to called it so is it Throated or Ramped??? 20190113_011655[1].jpg
    20190113_011727[1].jpg 20190113_011945[1].jpg
     
  5. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    that barrel is throated, not ramped. compare it to the pictures I posted earlier. not seeing the frame, I can't tell if someone has performed the ramping to the frame or not. the frame would have to be the part ramped unless the barrel is ramped, which can't be done to that style of barrel.

    my suggestions on such mods, (which is after the fact in your case.) try various ammo before doing any mods, as well as high quality magazines. (magazines tend to be one of the more prevalent items that cause many various problems in 1911's including feeding issues.)

    now the part I do find a bit odd, is that a pistol manufactured in 2011 was having feeding issues with JHP ammo. most modern pistols are pretty much designed for such ammo, as they seems to be what most people are going to use. and this is exactly why I would have tried different ammo, and magazines before doing any mods to the pistol. and here's another issue I have with such mods. the feed ramp angles are very critical in which to properly and smoothly feed ammo into the chamber. (notice I said CRITICAL) and this isn't something trusted to a novice gunsmith.

    in design the 1911 platform is actually a very simple design, but very complex in making changes to. and too many people mistakenly see all the parts and accessories for the 1911 in catalogs and various websites that cater to the 1911, and think they can modify their 1911. they are mistaken. the 1911 is not an inter-changeable platform like the AR15 rifles. 1911 parts, or most of them are not drop-in ready. many times they need to be fitted and tweaked. and the complex nature of the 1911 is that every thing works in very delicate balance. changing one small part usually will affect other parts, and upset that delicate balance. knowing how these pistols work is a key factor in doing any mods to them. these are not pistols to be modified by amateurs. that is why there are very few pistolsmiths who are masters of the 1911 platform.

    when I first got into 1911's many, many years ago, I learned a few things from a gunsmith, and over the years, found out, (the hard way, that cost me great sums of money) that true competent gunsmiths on the 1911 platform were few and far between and usually fairly expensive. most I ran across said they knew them, but in reality knew less than I did! so I started learning for myself, and figured I could mess one up on my own and still be money ahead! so I learnd from various books and modifying my own. and much of what I learned was this. the closer to stock one can leave a 1911, the better off in the long run a person will be. if any mods are made, rule out the simple things first. one thing with some 1911's, are they can be ammo sensitive. hence, the reason I suggest trying different ammo as test first. then moving to different magazines next.
     
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  6. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Would you take a pic showing an unfired round in the chamber?
    I would like to see if you have enough support material remaining.
     
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  7. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    now, I don't consider myself any sort of expert on 1911's, but an experienced tinkerer! I do dearly love the 1911 platform, and have been involved with them for many years, and have owned quite a few over those years.

    but what I have learned is this: all the mods I have done, that leaving one stock seemed like the best course of action. I have tried so many things over the years in mods, that resulted in failures of all sorts. and going back to stock, usually cured all ails!

    IF, you are going to make mods, buy spare parts to modify, and keep your stock parts so you can return back to stock. make ONLY one mod at a time. multiple changes in parts can create many multiple problems that can become very difficult to diagnose and repair. always remember, with the 1911 platform, one change can create a change in other parts and how they function, or don't function. this is why I say keep your OEM parts so you can return to stock and start over.
     
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  8. Hookeye

    Hookeye Well-Known Member

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    IIRC in the old days barrels didn't come with a ramp that required frame cut.
    The terms ramped and throated referred (back then) to two procedures to enhance feed.
    Ramped was making frame ramp to bbl transition smooth- maybe w angle change as well. Throating was widening the opening to chamber.
     
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  9. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    most 1911's in 45 acp, didn't have ramp cut frames. the frame was part of the ramp to ease the round into the chamber. that was usually a mod the 1911 pistolsmiths would add. a frame cut, along with ramped barrel, such as like in the first picture I posted.

    now, many of the smaller calibers in the 1911 platform, usually have the frame cut and a ramped barrel from the manufacturer.

    you are pretty much spot on about the ramped and throating as well.

    there were alot of things that pistolsmiths were doing with the 1911's that the manufacturers started doing from the factory. there were things that Cold offered on the 1911 from their custom shop as options as well.
     
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  10. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That mirrors my experience. Mr. Browning had the mechanics and geometry figured out. Tinkering for the sake of tinkering doesn't always help and sometimes creates problems. Most issues in 1911s are related to magazines.
     
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  11. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Years ago I also carried a Colt Gold Cup on Duty. Since primarily the Gold Cup is a competition pistol. And likes round ball competition ammunition the best. At the time there were hollow points that was fairly blunt on the tip. So my Cold Cup was modified slightly by a skilled Gunsmith so it would feed almost anything. Today with some of the new ammunition like Hornady Critical Defense and others that have the Polymer tip they feed easily not having the old squared off hollow points. Also many years ago I bought a used 1911 Colt Commander from a guy. Thought I got a good deal, at first! NOT! He had the Ramp and Barrel Area done by some jackleg professing gunsmith obviously! When I showed it the pistol makers at Rock River Arms Inc. The advised, OMG no wonder it will not feed and it is no wonder, you could have possibly had a blow up. Who ever worked on it wrecked the Barrel. RRA re-barreled it with a Kart Barrel and done some custom work on it. So caution should be used not to just let anyone perform this or anything similar!;)

    03
     
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  12. oO_Rogue_Oo

    oO_Rogue_Oo Well-Known Member

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    Whew, am I the only one thinking that looking at these pictures does not inspire confidence in your smiths work?
     
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  13. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was waiting to see if anyone else noticed it, before saying anything. or hoping I just have old eyes. but yes, I have to agree with you. that person would not ever get near one of mine.
     
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  14. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    That is why I asked for a pic with a round in the chamber.....

    A little over zealous IMO.
     
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  15. Fred_G

    Fred_G Well-Known Member

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    In for info.
     
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  16. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    well being that John M. Browning was my great, great grandfather I can tell you everything about 1911's!:)

    JK! :D
     
  17. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I still would like to see a new round in the barrel to see if the support has been removed.
     
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