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Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by JTJ, Apr 30, 2013.
Amazing and beautiful in it's simplicity!
I don't think it would work that well in high humidity, but should be great out west.
A spring is also good for refrigeration. I saw a spring house in Charleston from the early 1700's. The water flowed in the center of the room and then ran in a trough around the room and emptied on the other side. Pots would then be placed in the trough. Anything in the pots would be kept cool.
I also saw a small spring box while out in the woods metal detecting. It was about 3ft x 3ft and 2ft tall. The walls were rock and there was a rock slab covering the top of it. There was a 1ft x 1ft opening in the front. It was built right in the middle of a creek over a spring. The opening acted like a small damn and let water flow over it but it raised the water level inside. Things like milk and butter would have been stored in there. Along with a watermelon or two in the summer. I always wished I had taken a picture of that.
Pot in pot evaporative cooling
The video shows 55f inside the Empty pot in a moderate breeze, moderate humidity and 65f ambient. That is better than no cooling and a boon to arid, dirt poor Africans. The effect is similar to N. trappers placing perishables in burlap bags & setting them in any available water, or even an open hole in moss or muskeg.
In this country, if I were prepairing for "grid meltdown" my refrigeration would include the Peltier chip type coolers (Koolatron). Pull your car battery (no gas anyway) . When sizing your solar panels, allow for 4a (50w) extra load. My dad had made a windcharger in the 40's and in my early years I remember reading 8 amps on the gauge. I still have the prop for it & hope to recreate & report at a later date!
Folks in Colorado, Arizona, and similar DRY climates use a "Swamp Cooler" instead of an air condtioner- simple evaporative cooler. And when the humidity is 10%, works great! It is also the principle of a terra cotta water jug, or a canvas water bag. The African market is a desert region.
Does not work that good in the humid South- but yes, a spring house DOES wor. Not ice cold, but much cooler than the air.
Keeping on the thread subject "refrigeration", the swamp cooler does't really apply. My concern is that people used to a 38f fridge depending on evaporative cooling for refrigeration in an emergency situation may do more harm than good. You certainly don't want food poisoning
This does work much, much more efficiently in arid climates. Here in California I can get a 25 degree drop in temperature out of the swamp cooler on a very dry day. But it does raise the humidity inside the house (which the wife doesn't like). Much, much cheaper than air conditioning.
Also, those fleece lined canteen covers, blanket covered canteens and those burlap covered water bags are designed around the principle of evaporative cooling. You must soak them thoroughly in water when filling them though. I can't tell you the number of people who thought I was crazy when I "spilled" water on my canteen covers while filling. "Heck", they would say, "now the canteen is going to get everything wet!"
A few hours later when my canteen water is cool as a cucumber and theirs is ready to make tea, they finally understood.
So, soak your canteen cover before going out!
con't (finger hit send)
Instead, dry & smoke all meat (soak to rehydrate), slice & sun dry fruits, corn, mushrooms, etc. Store potatoes, onions, root veggies in a cool place.
evaporative cooling... refrigeration?
Viking Dad, your wife is feeling the trade-named "clammy cool". Yes the swamp cooler does lower the air temp which is partly negated by the humidity short-circuiting your bodys' own cooling system! And your stated 25f drop still puts the temperature nowhere near safe REFRIGERATION temp for perishables. I stand by my original post, don't take the chance of poisioning the family!
Okey dokey artichokey.
I wouldn't use these methods instead of refrigeration, because they aren't. But they are a great idea to utilize if refrigeration fails. Cooling food by any methods available will extend the amount of time you can safely store it, and this includes meat.
Vikingdad, I remember when we had a swamp cooler for the car. You hung it on the window when crossing the desert and you carried one of those water bags hung on the outside of the car.
Maybe I am the nut case I'm always made joke of , but consider NO REFRIGERATION..? Dehydrating , smoke and salt curing , pickling and canning.!
I know , I know , the pain , oh the pain , (HOT BEER) , Ack..!
Hmmmm..? Must a been a "Cro-magnon" in another life..?
One set of my grandparents did not have ELECTRICITY until I was about 10 yrs old. They were able to raise 13 kids (yeah, that was not a typo) with no refrigeration. They DID have an icehouse, and would store ice in the winter- but it would not last until the following winter (sawdust makes GOOD insulation for blocks of ice)
COOLING will extend the safe usable life of foods- Milk, cream, butter were kept in the springhouse- at about 52 degrees. Not as good as a 37 degree fridge, but MUCH better than 80 degree air.
But for most foods- drying, salting, pickling, canning, sulfuring, smoking- or eat what is in season.
And yes- a lot of produce will store well in a root cellar- or even in a "hill" or "clutch"- for those that do not have root cellars. Shovel up a mound of dirt about a foot high, 5-8 ft across, lay down 6" of clean straw. Place well dried potatoes on straw, up to a foot thick, cover with more straw, and then a foot of dirt. Need potatoes? Dig in from side, reach in, take potatoes, reseal. Dry, no light and cool- ideal storage.
No refrigeration? Hmm- that means we have chicken tonight. And the remains go into the stew pot, and will simmer until time for Brunswick Stew tomorrow night.
DANGO, so far only thing that I can fault u for is not reading preceeding posts!
I omitted canning 'cause in SHTF situations you could not get new sealing lids/ rings and again risk poisioning or at least, food loss! KISS !!
In survival situations in Europe during WW2, food has been canned and the container sealed with melted beeswax.,
Not a perfect solution, bit it works.
As when I was a child and ole crazy Dad was not around , you do not need Lids at all..! parafin...<---spell checker is killing me , Eeeek..! Ok Mr. Spell checker ,
(Wax) and can be used over and over again .! Air tight seal and recyclable .!
Yeap , we used to can (Taradacticles)...! man , I'm getting old..! Eeek.!
Ps:the only reason I even know this is that my mother and her sister , my Aunt Kay , would can every year , fruits , veggies , meats , all kinds of things..! The bees wax would be preferred but is a little more money..!
In 2005 , we had a local effort to do "hiving" , bee tending , with the intent of honey and wax . We tried for 4 years and every year , the bears would tear it up . A chronic problem and could not stop them.!
6 of us Jim , Al , Carl , Rick , brother Ron and myself . We had been
Beaten 4 years in a row..! The only way to stop them was to kill them , we decided to quit and let the bears win and live .
Now some people have been successful at this. Not too far from here , but not here , lots of black bears .!
I have a friend up in norCal who has hives hives he keeps in a huge cage he made out of pipes and rollbar tubing attached to a shipping container. It keeps the bears out, but it took some investment of materials and effort.
I changed the frig in my RV over to a standard 120 volt that I run with batteries and solar panels.
Wait, you changed it from a standard RV fridge that runs on 12 volts DC, 120 volts AC or propane? Those are the best ones to have because they are so flexible. You can also run those off of solar without an inverter.
Yes. The one I removed was a three-way frig. If you have ever used a 3-way you would know that the 12 volt part is about worthless. And trying to run it on 120 volt thru an inverter is a very poor choice. Works fine with propane and 120 plugged to a regular electric line. I wanted a more self-sustaining option. The new 120 volt only frig works excellent and solar runs it very easy.