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Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by ScottA, Sep 19, 2014.
Does anyone use a red dot sight for clays or upland hunting? What's been your experience?
Most everyone is going to tell you they are no good, yada, yada, but I used a Weaver Qwik-Point many moons ago with great success on everything. If it hadn't of been for the lousy mount set up I would have probably never stopped. Shot a 25 at skeet with an occluded sight no less. That means sight tube was blocked, and one eye saw the dot and the other eye saw the target. I currently have a Burris SpeedBead on my Model 1100 Magnum waterfowl gun, and have for 3 years. I wish I had the bigger dot they have available now, but it works extremely well. I don't need it, but I like to fool around with different things. And it is every bit as fast as without it. I shoot clays with it for practice as well.
An optical sight does not require you to lose focus on the target at all. The dot and the target are both right out there in the same focal plane. Your eye and brain VERY quickly learn to reference off of the dot versus the peripheral sight picture of the barrel one usually has to use.
Why on Earth do you need it? Look at the dang bird, period, keep the gun moving, keep head on stock, pull trigger. Done. No dots needed. It's a distraction.
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I thought he was talking about gunpowder. Try the red dot. If it does not work you can put it on another gun.
Damn, I thought he was talking about the powder too ! Lots of the guys at my club use it. Never seen anyone use a "sight" per se.
Big dogs say your not even supposed to look at the bead n lead - just at the bird.
Red Dot? Love the powder, can't comment on the gadget. 16 gr Red Dot (or Promo) behind 3/4oz shot in a normal (not back-bored or oversized bore) is a sweet clay-killing load if you do YOUR job.
You don't aim a shotgun with a sight. You point the gun at the target, and follow the target with both eyes open. Then you swing the gun to follow what you are seeing with your eyes and keep the gun moving either leading the target or swinging through the target.
For example, with a double bead setup on a gun with a raised rib, you use the middle bead and front bead to form an "8" - that make it so the gun is shouldered at the correct level.
After that - you never look at the beads again. You point the gun at the target as you follow it with your eyes and swing through or lead the target (your choice) and when you're at the correct point in front of the target - pull the trigger.
I prefer at least a 4x scope!
You will note that all the negative comments are coming from non-users.
During WWII they used optical sights on shotguns to train aerial gunners. All the modern sighting systems are heads up displays - I.e. optical sights. I do not particularly care for the aesthetics myself, but they do work. Just looking at the target doesn't do squat unless the eye and the brain can form a reference with the gun barrel in peripheral vision and learn what sight picture produces a hit. That is why gun fit matters. With an optical sight, there is less tendency to get all tangled up with gun fit and everything, particularly for new shooters. All they have to do is put the dot in front of the target the right distance. You can see both easily, and in focus. You never have to take your eye off the target.
And I never heard the BS about figure 8 until a few years ago, on the internet of course. Double beads have been around a LOT longer. The gun should shoot to point of aim with the beads superimposed, not stacked, and you only want a gun to shoot high with trap. I was an accomplished wingshot before I ever tried one, and I was quite frankly amazed. So were all my friends who tried it. It is fine to not like them; I don't like O/Us, but they both do work.
You have people who can hit a clay pigeon with anything. Then you have a another crowd who is always buying a gun. Their score remains the same no matter what gun they are shooting or what gunsmith fitted the gun. We have two national champion sporting clay shooters in our club. One of them is getting elderly. He has a nice Brownings but most of the time he shoots a Maverick 88. The Maverick 88 is his truck, rough hunt and bedside gun. He shoots the pump at clay pigeons to stay fit and not lose his edge.
Shoot the red dot. It will not matter if it improves your score or not. What does matter is you have fun. If people at your club are not supportive you need to find a new club.
That's what's so nice about Internet gun forums. Everyone is so open minded, and polite - along with being a self proclaimed expert on everything.
Old style double beads were, in fact, generally sighted by overlapping the beads to form a single bead. However, that presumes you are shooting American trap, and allowed to shoulder the gun prior to calling for the clay with as much time for sight alignment as needed.
If you were to shoot a different clay sport (like FITASC, for example) where you have to start with the gun at a "ready" position along side your body rather than shouldered, you would find the "8" style middle bead / front sight alignment to allow faster gun presentation.
If you have your gun fitted for the "8" presentation, or find a shotgun with the length of pull / comb drop that allows you to use that sighting - it can be used for any clay sport with much faster initial sighting.
However, if you care to poo-poo everything you don't know about and/or don't care to learn about - carry on....
When I was still bird hunting I found out if I looked at the bead I missed. If all I saw was a big blob and concentrated on the bird I hit. We called it the miss me bead. Your mind is supposed to do all of the calibrations without really thinking about it and it will. I see really good gunners marketing all kinds of shooting gadgets like fancy sights that they dont use themselves. Now the red dot sight sounds really interesting and would be fun to try if your shotgun will take one. Great idea on a ground gun. Bunnies,deer, hogs etc. Should really work well on slugs. I know a lot of hog hunters use them on both rifles and shotguns with a lot of their shots on runners. I would look at the Bushnell TRS25 as it has an integral mount and sits extremely low on a Weaver or Pica rail. I have several that I use on rifles and a pistol. I might have to try one on the shotgun. It might get me interested in shooting it more often. Damn recoil when you get old. Sighting in a slug gun from a bench does not sound real inviting.
I can see a red dot being useful in 3-gun events or home defense or hunting ground based bigger animals that aren't full on running. That being said, I just can't see it being any help at all in sporting clays, skeet, trap, or 5-Stand.
I shoot a Ruger 22/45 with a Cmore red dot in Steel Challenge events. The dot vs. impact point alters depending on how far away from the target you are. It takes quite a bit of fiddling to get it right to be useful on the various lengths one shoots. Every shotgun game requires different length shots and to me, a dot would never be set right to work the way it was intended. You couldn't trust it. A quarter turn in elevation could equal feet off your intended point of impact down the sporting clays course. Twist it down and now you're missing the short shots. At your house, it could be set for 20 feet and you'd be fine, but in an ever changing environment like bird shooting, seems you'd never get it right. Plus, it sits above the receiver so you'd need to adjust the comb up and all of that hubbub. I just don't see it being viable.
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I am using a TRS25 on my 22-45 and I find the same issues even though the TRS25 sits extremely low. I found setting it for a median distance and learning where to hold was easiest. I also use on on my 10-22 and dont need a higher cheek rest. I was thinking of removing it and trying it out on my HD shotgun. I dont see much use for it inside the house where the longest shot would be 25 feet but if I needed it outside it might be handy. It will be an excuse to shoot the shotgun.
Well stated, JD. If you are not having fun you are wasting an awful lot of time and money.
and if you run up a few good rounds you may start a new trend!!!
Heck--if you want to go optic on a shotgun go old school. Nydar sights are pretty common on fleabay. Developed from the gunsights
used by aerial gunners in WWII, they were the "new thing" for shotguns in the late 40's. I've got omne I picked up just to play with,
surprised how well it works with no batteries!
... wait till they land in the tree and then put your 3X9 on it and ............. there ya go.........