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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Fellers,
I'm thinking about getting a black powder rifle for deer hunting. I know nothing about BP rifles. What is a good brand and model based on your knowledge and experience?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
 

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Looking for cheap or classic?
Cabela's makes a nice hawken or you can check out places like Dixie gun works and see what catches your eye.
 

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A quality piece? Like a custom built rifle with a custom price or a nice long rifle or a well made relatively historically accurate gun like a hawken that's good for hunting or a modern bp rifle as in an inline?
 

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If you want a quality piece, contact Colin Stoltzer at Stoltzer and Sons Gunsmithing. He does beautiful work, he studied under Steve Zihn, and his prices are reasonable. http://stolzergunsmithing.webs.com/ He is located at Washington, Kansas.

Notice the .50 Boxlock, it is historically accurate, and will be of the finest workmanship. Call Colin and visit with him he is a really nice guy, tell him Bill told you to call.
 

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I like Thomson Center for a more traditional rifle. I don't know much about the modern in lines.
Do you prefer a traditional or a modern rifle?
 

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I have a Thompson Encore, a lot of guys here like the CVAs mainly the Optima and a few Wolfs around. I have heard good things about the CVA Apex, it is an interchangeable system like the Encore and is supposed to be accurate, but I believe they don't have as many calibers available for interchangeable barrels as the Encore has.
 

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gotta reccomend the CVA Wolf. Not very expensive, deadly accurate and a cinch to clean!
 

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I'm not a fan of the cheatlines. I dont see plastic stocks, telescopic sights, stainless steel, and artificial powder furthering the Black Powder sports. The "modern" rifles are simply an excuse to get into another season, and make it hard for the guys that are using the traditional rifles. Ponder on some guy using good stalking skills to get within shooting range of a good buck when some other joker pops him from 200 yards out with his stainless steel, plastic stocked, cheatline, using smokeless powder.....It completely defies the logic of the season.
 

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I have a cva Hawkins that I put together from a kit my wife bought me 30 years ago. I have shot the snot out of it. Brought home lots of deer meat with it. Took it to the range recently and let some others shoot it, they were amazed at how accurate it was. I love shooting it it.
 

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I'm not a fan of the cheatlines. I dont see plastic stocks, telescopic sights, stainless steel, and artificial powder furthering the Black Powder sports. The "modern" rifles are simply an excuse to get into another season, and make it hard for the guys that are using the traditional rifles. Ponder on some guy using good stalking skills to get within shooting range of a good buck when some other joker pops him from 200 yards out with his stainless steel, plastic stocked, cheatline, using smokeless powder.....It completely defies the logic of the season.
Posts like this make me sick! all it does show how truly selfish you are..."Keep everyone out of MY woods..only I and the way I do things is right" crowd.

Why would you want to discourage someone from getting into the sport. Once a person gets started, they may find a way to love the more "traditional aspects" to it.

Its like the idiots that want to disparage those that use crossbows, crying foul over the "heritage" of the traditional archery tackle......all the while using compound archery equipment with 75% let off, fiber optic sights, stabalizers, drop away rests, carbon fiber arrows and mechanical broadheads.

Unless your making your own black powder and using a rock lock, you aint traditional, same goes for the stick and string boys, if you aren't knapping your own flint you aint traditional.

Its about the ethical harvest of the target species and NOT about the equipment used!


For the record...i also have a CVA 50 cal. Hawken reproduction from a kit...but i also have a CVA Wolf Inline...BOTH have taken many deer in my hands!
 

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The muzzleloading seasons were started by the traditional black powder shooters years ago to get a season apart from the regular seasons so that the traditional shooters did not have to compete with the center fire shooters. The inlines with the shotgun primers, smokeless powder, jacketed bullets, and scopes should be used in the regular season, not in the black powder muzzleloader season. I dont like bow hunting either. That's just what I prefer.
 

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I do cheat a little I use pyrodex instead of black power. I still shoot the .490 round lead balls, but they are getting hard to find. Every local store only has these jacketed sabots and I refuse to shoot them.
 

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You about have to order them now. I laid in 500 last winter, so we are good for a while.

My state Muzzleloading Association is working hard on this, lobbying to try to get our muzzleloading season returned to black powder, traditional rifles, only, and are having limited success. The bowhunters dominate our hunting seasons, being allowed to hunt during the blackpowder season mid September until about the first of February. We cant hunt the rut, only the bowhunters get to do that. So, naturally, it divides the hunters. Most of the landowners here now, do not permit bowhunting. So, there is some rub going on.
 

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Here we have the same "problem" with bow hunters, they feel they are the only ones who are the true hunter because those of us who feel the need to use any sort of firearm are not "real" hunters, bow hunting is so much more challenge and sport as they claim, and there are a lot of them and every time they cry foul they get their way, I like bow hunting but I have always love gun hunting. Personally I don't agree with your opinion on inlines being unfair to traditionalists and if I had the experience you describe of stalking a buck and someone sniping it out from under me from 200 yds out I would say the problem is hunting in an area overpopulated by hunters, the same scenario could possibly happen with another hunter with a traditional shooting from 70 yds away I'd think. I think hunters being against other hunters due to the game or method they like is bad enough, but I think a Muzzleloading Assoc. working against muzzleloading hunters who choose a different more modern style gun is downright deplorable. Imagine if the Bowhunting Assoc. told us we had to throw away our Mathews and Hoyt bows in favor of long bow only, oh ya and all hunting must be done by stalking, there will be no tree stands allowed because that isn't traditional either.
 

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if its just for the nostalga of traditional primitave hunting i would recomend any reproduced flintlocks (45 or 50 cal. using patched round balls or buffalo bullets w/ 110gr. of ff black powder) or a hawken mountain rifle in .50 cal. cap and ball using 110 gr. of goex ff powder and a patched round ball don't rule out 12g muzzle loading shotguns (110gr. ff behind 9-00 buck pellets). they have given me many enjoyable and successful hunts.

just for the ability to extend your hunting season and bag more deer (where allowed), i would recomend a scoped remigton m700ml using 2- 50gr. pyrodex pellets behind a hornady 44 cal. 240gr. hp saboted projectile. i have bagged dozens of deer ( one shot/ dropped in their tracks (25-200 yards).
 

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The muzzleloading seasons were started by the traditional black powder shooters years ago to get a season apart from the regular seasons so that the traditional shooters did not have to compete with the center fire shooters. The inlines with the shotgun primers, smokeless powder, jacketed bullets, and scopes should be used in the regular season, not in the black powder muzzleloader season. I dont like bow hunting either. That's just what I prefer.
Its about only getting one shot. The difference between modern repeaters and muzzle loading is just that, ONE shot as opposed to 5 or more.

I do cheat a little I use pyrodex instead of black power. I still shoot the .490 round lead balls, but they are getting hard to find. Every local store only has these jacketed sabots and I refuse to shoot them.
Yeah, i have tried the sabots in my Hawkin and it doesnt like them...well actually I dont like what it does...the recoil is INSANE! Whereas with the patched round balls its quite a bit less, and i think it achieves more accuracy. Now those sabots out of the Wolf the recoil is next to nothing and the accuracy is amazing. 90 gr pyrodex under 240 gr. JHP.

You about have to order them now. I laid in 500 last winter, so we are good for a while.

My state Muzzleloading Association is working hard on this, lobbying to try to get our muzzleloading season returned to black powder, traditional rifles, only, and are having limited success. The bowhunters dominate our hunting seasons, being allowed to hunt during the blackpowder season mid September until about the first of February. We cant hunt the rut, only the bowhunters get to do that. So, naturally, it divides the hunters. Most of the landowners here now, do not permit bowhunting. So, there is some rub going on.
This is EXACTLY what posts like the one i commented on and what i am guessing by your comments, your attitude, achieves. DIVISION!!

We need MORE unity in the hunting community (same with the shooting community) not less! In every state it s the same..."my particular brand of hunting is superior to yours and i want ALL the premium times to ME." "We do it better so ours deserves preference" PURE SELFISHNESS!

We just went thru this fight here last year....the NRC actually listened to people like myself. (they adopted EVERY proposal i laid out save one) People that have have DECADES of hunting experience under their belts. Hunting with every legal weapon/season. I explained why their proposals would not work to achieve their stated goals, then gave them an alternate proposal explaining why that would work.

I dont see what your beef with archery hunters is...at least archery hunters are quiet about it...you start touching off guns, deer get skittish and scarce in a hurry aka go nocturnal. I have watched it happen for decades. I hunt from Oct 1 thru mid Nov. seeing plenty of deer and picking and choosing my shots...3 days after the start of boomstick season the deer get scarce.

This is not to say i prefer one type of hunting over the other....i just LOVE to hunt. I use archery during archery season, gun during gun, (Usually i use my muzzle loader during "shotgun" or "modern firearm" season) Muzzle loader during muzzleloader season and archery during late archery.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I am brand new to hunting, and one of my main concerns is a having a "clean kill". For this reason, I prefer to use a modern BP rifle. Just to improve my accuracy and success rate. I am leaning towards SS inline type rifle. The other reason is that deer rifle season is very limited in MD, so I was thinking that I just get ONE hunting rifle instead of a centerfire + a BP. Just use the BP for all seasons. Again, I am just getting into hunting so I don't know what the hell I am talking about!! I went deer hunting last year with a borrowed .270 but did not get a shot. I'd like to get my own gear.
 
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