Really confused now!

Discussion in 'Glock Forum' started by danijoh69, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. danijoh69

    danijoh69 New Member

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    Ok gang, I went to the required CCW class last night in preparation for getting my Florida CCW license. I was all convinced I wanted to buy a Glock 19 as my carry weapon.
    After going over the Florida statutes re being responsible for where a bullet ends up (God forbid I should ever have to actually shoot someone!) I'm starting to re-think the
    wisdom of carrying a 9mm. Our instructor, a police chief, says most 9mm could very possibly penetrate a human body & possibly harm an innocent bystander! He said NEVER draw your weapon unless you shoot to kill, in the case of defending your home/vehicle. He carries a .32 as a concealed weapon, his duty weapon is the Springfield 1911 .45. The .32 fits nicely in his pocket. I do have a S&W .357 now. So, do I buy the Glock 19, or a .32 or 380? What are your thoughts? As you may have guessed I am a newbie at this so I appreciate everyone's opinions! Thanks in advance!
     
  2. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I am wrestling with this subject myself. I am in the market for a new gun and am fretting over which caliber. I think I've finally made a decision. I'm interested to see what responses you get. Good luck!!
     

  3. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    9mm can have problems with over penetration. So can 357 sig. A good hollow point can help stop this, but not always. 45 ACP and 10mm are bigger slower rounds, so over penetration is not as likely (they also do more damage to what ever they hit).

    As for 40 S&W, It is more powerful then 9mm (not sure about over penetration though), but it causes a lot of muzzle flip (aka kick). Many people love them, but a lot of people absolutely hate them too. I highly suggest trying this round out first before buying anything chambered for it).

    For SD, I'd personally go with either the 357 mag, or either the 45 acp or the 10mm, but in the end, you need to go with what ever you comfortable with. The 9mm will do the job you need it to do.

    IIRC, You can just change barrels on a glock and switch out the mags to change calibers. This only works if the frames are the same (9mm and 40 S&W can be switched on the same frame, or if you want a larger gun, .45 acp and 10mm can be switched on the same frame. The 9mm and .40 s&w will NOT fit on the .45 acp and 10mm's frame, and vice versa)

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  4. danijoh69

    danijoh69 New Member

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    Thanks for the reply Texaswoodworker, but as I mentioned I have a .357 now, it does have tremendous kick, too big for a CCW IMHO; I did have a Colt 1911 .45 years ago,
    Wish I had it back, but that also would be "overkill" for a CCW, no pun intended.
     
  5. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Maybe you could carry some .38 special HP's in the .357 until you make a final decision. You may decide you like it or that you will like the .357 with newer grips or somesuch fixup.

    Many people complain the .380 lacks in the penetration department, and while i am not sure i believe them, maybe a .380 would sooth your overpenetration concerns a bit. The Bersa Thunder .380 is comfy and concealable and is available in a single-stack model (7 or 9 shots) or a double-stack model (15 shots) for around $300. I don't conceal carry, but i did really like shooting my Bersa. See if you can hold one at your favorite shop or rent one at a range. Ammo will seem expensive, so skip this for a range gun.
     
  6. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    lol, theres no such thing as overkill. Especially when the thing your shooting at is trying to kill you too. Some people actually carry 44 mags and 454 Casulls. Like I said, it's just what ever your comfortable with.
     
  7. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    Regarding possible over penetration: any round, placed poorly, will over penetrate. Hit the BG in the upper arm and miss bone, your bullet is going through.:eek:

    Yes, big slow rounds like the .45 ACP reduce this threat and do more damage to your attacker. Logically this should translate to less rounds needing to be fired to stop the threat and therefore reduced threat of a miss or an over P.

    However, typically, the bigger the round, the more recoil, and some shooters are sensitive to this.

    Any .45 ACP or 10 MM will have considerably more recoil than a comparable 9 MM but considerably LESS recoil than the .357 you currently own.

    To me it boils down to a "power to weight" ratio. In cold months where I can conceal a bigger gun, I make sure that gun is a .45ACP

    In warmer months where I must step down to a sub compact I step down to a 9 MM.

    I carry quality defensive HP ammo in both and have ensured that all my carry guns are 100% reliable and hit to point of aim with that guns selected carry load.

    Personally, I'd worry more about having a good HP load in a quality gun that YOU can shoot effectively.

    Tack
     
  8. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    And the Glock 19, while a very good gun, is also a very large gun. Sure it's the compact version of the G17 but take it from me. After 16 years of CCW I've determined that the ideal carry guns dimensions are "no more that 1" thick and no more than 4" tall from top of slide to bottom of mag well. Unless of course you can go through all your daily activities in a parka.
     
  9. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    The 9mm is an excellent choice though I went with the 40S&W for a little more power/diameter yet almost the same magazine capacity. Just be sure to get good hollowpoints that mushroom nicely. And aim for center mass so the bullet isn't likely to pass through your attacker and harm an innocent bystander. Practice with that ammo until you feel confident in your ability to hit center mass at roughly 7 yards.

    The Glock 19 is an excellent choice but for CCW you might want to go with the G26 for the smaller size. You can put a G19 magazine in the G26 to increase the grip size and capacity to equal the G19 for bedside/home defense but still be able to use the G26 mag for CCW. A magazine sleeve can be clamped on the G19 magazine to make the grip feel as good as the G19. I find it very nice to almost have two guns for the price of one with just a quick magazine swap.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  10. nickel1911

    nickel1911 New Member

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    Great advice on this thread! IMO I agree that a high quality jhp defensive round and a well placed shot should help with the over penetration. Good luck on your decision.
     
  11. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    My primary carry gun is a 1911 (CCO). I don't feel like I'm over doing it. Overkill is hard to achieve with a handgun. The best rise to the level of adequate.
    Over penetration is a risk. So is missing the intended target. For that matter, having a gun inadequate to stop your attacker is a risk. Whenever firearms are used in life or death situations, there is going to a pretty big risk for someone. If your worried about over penetration, use lighter weight hollow points. That & practice a lot, so you hit what your aiming at.
    Sorry, I don't see the .32 acp as the best answer to any number of SD questions, not when you can get .380 in itty bitty little pistols too. Sacrificing most of your performance on the alter of preventing any possibility of over penetration seems like a questionable trade off.
    Buy what you like, be it Glock or whatever. I would set .380 as the minimum. YMMV.
     
  12. nickel1911

    nickel1911 New Member

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    Very well said...
     
  13. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where is some of this info on 10 mm coming from? According to the ballistic tables the 10 mm shoots a 200 grain bullet at the same speed the 40 S&W shoots the 180 grain. With the 180 the 10 mm is 150-200 fps faster. I dont own a 40 or a 10. I do own a 380, 9mm, 45 ACP and a 357. My 380 is a Sig P238 which is a copy of the Colt Mustang. Single action carried cocked and locked with 6+1. Very easy to shoot and carry. Very fast to get back on target and accurate. 16 oz loaded. It would be a good choice and I carry it quite a bit. It is in my pocket right now in a DeSantis Super Fly. Another good choice would be a 38 spl or 357 mag snub nosed revolver. I have a Ruger SP101 in 357 and you can shoot 38spl in it. Right now it is loaded with 129 gr +P and my wife has it. It weighs 27 oz loaded and is very tame and very quick with the +P. There are several lighter snubbies out there by Ruger, S&W and Charter Arms. I only listed the USA made. Lighter will have more recoil. The smaller 9mm's have shorter barrels and a little less velocity. I have a Ruger SR9c. It is 28 oz loaded with the 10 round mag. Very easy to shoot and conceal. I traded my G19 for it as I have smaller hands and the G19 is a little large in the grip for me. The new Gen 4 is supposed to be better. The G19 is not that small so you might want to consider a G26. The only Glock that fits my hand is the G36 which is a 27 oz loaded 45 ACP. It is not for the recoil shy. I would stay away from the 32. It is a semi rimmed cartridge and prone to jams due to rim over. I really like the 45 but lately it seems I am carrying my 380 and or my 9mm.
     
  14. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    Carry whatever you like, and load it with JHPs.

    Overpenetration is unlikely to be much of a problem if you hit center mass with JHPs...whether 9mm, 40sw, or 45acp. Always know what's beyond your target, as center mass isn't such a cinch to hit outside of the range. I choose to carry 9mm and 45acp almost exclusively. Occasionally maybe my SP101 in 38/357.

    The truth is, there are no absolutes when it comes to 9mm, 40sw, 357/38, and 45acp velocity. There are sub-900fps and 1200+fps JHP loads available from major ammo manufacturers for each of these calibers. If you looked hard enough, you could probably find lighter exotic loads that would reach 1500+ fps in any of these.

    Find a gun you like in a caliber you shoot well. And then make an informed decision about what weight/velocity of defense ammo suits your needs and your gun best. I generally prefer 185-230gr 45acp and 124+gr 9mm.
     
  15. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    I was thinking the same thing.

    The 10mm was designed to be a fast, medium-heavy weight round....150-180gr @ 1200-1500 fps.

    But anymore you have to go outta your way to get that stuff from Buffalo Bore, DoubleTap, etc. Most of the vanilla 10mm currently being produced by the major manufacturers is little more than an expensive 40sw.
     
  16. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    beretta m1032 tomcat loaded with corbon 60 gr. hp. 1000fps from that short barrel

    or google glaser safety slugs.....no penetration
     
  17. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    With a good HP round and good shot placement a 9mm is jut fine. A G19 is a fine carry weapon. I'm not a Glock fan (it's more about the form over function for me) but there is no denying their effectiveness. Is your 357 carry friendly? If so you can get a good HP round and buy some time (as orangello said).

    No matter what you get just practice..A LOT! make it second nature to be able to hit center mass if you had to to a BG. There are tons of great carry guns out here. I'm no as big a fan of some smaller calibers just because range and under-penetration can be an issue. You say you are in Fla so maybe that wont be as big an issue as you guys wear a lot less clothes than we do up here.

    Muscle memory is a great thing when it comes to shooting. With enough practice you can get to where you are on target no matter what you're shooting. Practice/training..There is no substitute.
     
  18. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

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    agreed. JHP or EFMJ's, whatever, are some of the most reliable rounds you could buy for the 9mm since they expand reliably. always did read about it in the magazines until i did my jug test myself. my guard-dog always expanded the fullest and never went through all of the jugs.
     
  19. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    My opinion, no matter what caliber u choose.. always heads up & eyes up. In most stressful situations, we might not think twice. So practise and practise of aiming your shooting. Always look if there's somebody else behind your target. If you have to shoot from different angle, then shoot.
    When i had my CCW class, my 2 instructors carry 9mm caliber for their guns. BUT they do advise use hollow point ammo to avoid penetration, just like everyone said here.
    Back to yourself, ask yourself which caliber you are comfortable with.
     
  20. Mdrums

    Mdrums New Member

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    I have a G27 and I'm just not sure I'm liking the .40 feel. The G27 wants to hope out of my fat hands. I tried Houge grips and now Talon grips....took some lessons on shooting and I'm holding the gun correctly but it really flips up. I rented a G30 .45 and liked it a bit better and I absolulty love my wifes new M&P 9c...same size as the G26/27 but it just feels right in my hands.