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Yep AMEN!

AMEN! on items one two and three.
 

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Why not do like the Filipino Marines? They went with a heavy barreled M-16 rifle/AR-15 version that has a scope mounted on it. I think that they shoot the heavier bullets but it would probably also work with the lighter, more common 55 grain bullets too, if need be. That way you could be using a .223 caliber bullet for accurate fire or, if need be, use it for a tactical rifle too. I would suggest that you think about the AR-15 rifles as modular systems so that you could have one lower and a couple of different uppers which you could switch as needed. Take a look at Bushmaster and Model "1" upper halves and then buy a lower assembly that will work with the uppers that you want. You could then have one rifle that could double as a .223 sniper rifle with a heavy barrel or change tops to have a short 16.5 inch tactical upper. Just a thought.
 

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Still up in the air on bolt or semi as well. Just curious what you all have for plinker guns for long range shooting.

What about the Remington 700?
I bought the DPMS equivalent of the Armalite AR-10. It's the LR-308B - "B" meaning bull barrel. It's an 18" barreled Flat-top with gas-block rail. I've got an 8 -24 x 50mm scope on it, but I also bought flip-up front & rear iron sights. A detachable carry handle with A2 sights is also available. It's got a 1 in 10 twist, A2 Stock with free-float aluminum handguard. It doesn't have a port door or shell deflector, but it doesn't seem to need it. The barrel is almost 1" thick and the damned thiing weighs over 10 lbs. so recoil isn't an issue. It shoots sub 1" groups with factory ammo and I'm currently working on accurate reloads.
The cost? $849 through "R-Guns". I'm taking it to Camp LeJeune in July to try out some long range shooting. A quality AR will shoot just as accurately as a quality bolt action, and in many cases even more accurately than an out-of-the-box bolt gun, depending on how much you want to spend on a good bolt gun. The only compalint I have is the trigger - it's gritty. I am ordering a Chip McCormick adjustable match trigger for an additional $125. I have a Rock River Arms AR-15 in .223 that cost $915 and it needs nothing. The accuracy is match grade right out of the box. It has a National Match 2-stage trigger, 20" stainless air-guaged bull barrel, hogue grip,thermo-mold free-float handguard, detachable carry handle with 1/4 x 1/4 National Match Hooded .030aperture rear, and it comes with a 3/4 moa guarantee - mine does considerable better with 69 gr. Sierra HPBT Matchkings. I was going to order their .308 version, but they have not started production on it yet and they are backlogged with orders for the
.308 dating back to Dec. 2007! RRA was awarded a 5 yr. contract with the DEA and FBI, so there is a 10-12 week wait on the .223 version. I'm glad I waited. RRA also sells just about every caliber upper as well as a variety of options you would ever want from 9mm to .458 Socom. I highly recommend them. To be awarded contracts for 5000 rifles for both the DEA and FBI they must be doing something right! Hope this helps.
 

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Remington 700 SPS Varmint would be a fine choice. Read an article on it and the review was nothing but fantastic.
 

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You can't go wrong with either remington or savage both extremely well made rifles and extremely capable of sub moa :D :D :p :p
 

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You can't go wrong with either remington or savage both extremely well made rifles and extremely capable of sub moa :D :D :p :p
Um, can you provide some accurate data on that? Sub moa factory rifles with factory barrels? At what range? With what ammo?

I don't know of any "factory" rifle that guarantees sub moa performance, at any range - and very few "custom" rifle builders will give you a written guarantee.

JD
 

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Um, can you provide some accurate data on that? Sub moa factory rifles with factory barrels? At what range? With what ammo?

I don't know of any "factory" rifle that guarantees sub moa performance, at any range - and very few "custom" rifle builders will give you a written guarantee.

JD
My RRA NMA4 has a factory guarantee of 3/4 MOA. It does better than that with reloads...
 

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plinking/defense rifle

I can think of several semiauto rifles for less than 1000$ and a few that's over that amount but worth it. I would stick to .308 semi battle rifle due to the facts: they are extremely tough,less likely to break down or malfunction when you need them most,almost inpossible to wear out during any kind of NORMAL use-even abnormal use,the .308 has the punch to drop a man as far as you can hit him with such a rifle ON 1ST SHOT,reasonably accurate,and they flat out work.
The first rifle that comes to mind is the m1a/m14,you can find used 1s for less than 1K,while new 1s are a bit higher than that. The m1a is fed by 20 round detachable magazines. Springfield armoury is my pick for these.
 

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My RRA NMA4 has a factory guarantee of 3/4 MOA. It does better than that with reloads...
Unless I miss my guess, that is the Rock River Arms National Match A4. I would hardly classify that as a stock factory rifle since it comes with upgraded parts, like a Wilson heavy barrel, a two stage tuned trigger and a free floated barrel. A beautiful piece.

None the less, my point was that very few factory rifle makers ( Remington, Winchester, Savage, etc ) are going to give you a guarentee on accuracy. If you are buying one of their custom pieces, you might get some sort of guarantee, but for the most part, unless you are shelling out a premium price, don't expect a guarantee on performance.

The one lone stand out, that I know of, is Weatherby ( Howa ) - they do offer a guarantee on their SUB-MOA Varmint and deserve honorable mention as the rifle is listed at about $950. That said, they only guarentee .99" three shot group at 100 yards, with their ammo or one of their listed substitutes. They make no guarentees beyond that, but they are the only "factory" that I know who is offering this type of guarantee.

JD
 

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Unless I miss my guess, that is the Rock River Arms National Match A4. I would hardly classify that as a stock factory rifle since it comes with upgraded parts, like a Wilson heavy barrel, a two stage tuned trigger and a free floated barrel. A beautiful piece.


JD
It IS a stock factory rifle - it is just set-up for match shooting in it's standard configuration. I didn't order any "options". For $915 I got a factory rifle with Match capability.. The same with my DPMS AR in .308 - no special options - $849 for a factory rifle that shoots sub moa...If you are comparing these rifles to factory bolt guns, then you are right - Winchester, Remington, SAvage, don't offer accuracy "guarantee's", but generally these bolt guns are now marketed as "Tactical" rifles. They are primarily intended for hunting medium to large game where sub moa accuracy is not really necessary. If I wanted an accurate hunting rifle I would not hesitate to buy any of the ones mentioned, and I am sure by handloading that I could get the same accuracy that I get with my AR's. Hell, I have a No.1 MkIII SMLE,6.5x55 Swede, and FR-8 Spanish Mauser that shoot as well as any modern hunting rifle.
 

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^ Semantics or terminology difference I would say. *shrug*

While RRA would qualify as a production house, in a very loose sense, they are not turning out their NM rifles at the rate & in the configurations that they are moving their standard rifles. Hell, from their website you can order a 16" complete .223 rifle for $640 ( less lower receiver ) and need no FFL to have it shipped to you. I would say that a lower receiver will NEVER cost you the difference of the $275 to get to the price you paid. I would submit that would be the same difference in buying, say, a Kimber model from their Pro Shop as opposed to their standard production line model. In that advent, no manufacturer is going to offer a guarantee on a weapon that doesn't go through some sort of "higher standard" - be it tighter tolerances, hand fit parts, custom ( upgraded ) parts, or a just plain hand inspection to insure that you are providing a product that meets the advertising.

I agree that RRA is a production house and they do turn out a fine product, I just consider an AR rifle that MSRP's for over a grand to be a bit above the average price & care production run of their products. Getting it for $915 was a god [email protected] steal, so HEAVY KUDOS to you for nailing down that price. Well played sir, well played. :D

The weapon is none the less a fine piece of kit and I would have no problem fielding one of their products should a SHTF situation occur and one was at hand.

JD
 

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^ Semantics or terminology difference I would say. *shrug*

While RRA would qualify as a production house, in a very loose sense, they are not turning out their NM rifles at the rate & in the configurations that they are moving their standard rifles. Hell, from their website you can order a 16" complete .223 rifle for $640 ( less lower receiver ) and need no FFL to have it shipped to you. I would say that a lower receiver will NEVER cost you the difference of the $275 to get to the price you paid. I would submit that would be the same difference in buying, say, a Kimber model from their Pro Shop as opposed to their standard production line model. In that advent, no manufacturer is going to offer a guarantee on a weapon that doesn't go through some sort of "higher standard" - be it tighter tolerances, hand fit parts, custom ( upgraded ) parts, or a just plain hand inspection to insure that you are providing a product that meets the advertising.

I agree that RRA is a production house and they do turn out a fine product, I just consider an AR rifle that MSRP's for over a grand to be a bit above the average price & care production run of their products. Getting it for $915 was a god [email protected] steal, so HEAVY KUDOS to you for nailing down that price. Well played sir, well played. :D

The weapon is none the less a fine piece of kit and I would have no problem fielding one of their products should a SHTF situation occur and one was at hand.

JD

You are correct in the sense that $915 was a good deal for that particular weapon, however, I remind you that that price is available to anyone who orders it the way I did. All you need is for an FFL holder to give you a signed copy of his FFL so you can order it yourself - it will be shipped to him, but you will get the "dealer price" and avoid the sales tax! In fact, the FFL dealer who ordered it for me was sent a "Dealer Pricing Catalog" after they sent my rifle to him. He gave me the catalog. You would not believe the mark-up a non-dealer pays! That $640 price you quoted for an upper receiver is almost twice the dealer's price. Of course you need an FFL holder who is either a friend or a very good acquaintence, since most dealers would LOVE to make $300+ on the sale of a gun!
Also, RRA offers accuracy guarantee's on ALL of their rifles, not just their "high end" models. The standard AR which retails for $300 less than their NM version has an accuracy rating of 1" moa. Oddly, the Government Model ( the ridiculous looking Tactical ego-boosting model) retails for over $2000 and only has an accuracy rating of 1.5". What some people will pay to look cool is beyond me....
 
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