Questionable Ammo

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by diggsbakes, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    So the only ammo I've gotten multiple failures from my new build is Wolf .223 Rem 62 grain HP. In conjunction with these failures, I'm talking almost every round fails to cycle/go into full battery, I have gotten the same type of failure from this Ammo once out of my Bushmaster and ZERO from any other type.

    Now I said this type of Wolf is the only Ammo I've gotten multiple failures from. . . I've did get a single failure of the same sort from Tula 62 GR. HP.

    Now the ONLY Russian production ammo that I've NOT experienced ANY failure from is Brown Bear. Now many of ya'll would say "Well it all comes from the same place." While that may be true, check out the picture I included.

    On the right is the Wolf, on the left in the Brown Bear. The "polymer coating" Brown Bear advertises is very visible. It also has a texture, much similar to brass as opposed to Wolf, which is much different. Also notice that the projectile on the Wolf (right) is a bit longer (seated shallower) by about 3/32" (yes I did measure).

    I wish this rifle would "eat everything" that is something that I want(ed) out of ALL my guns, especially ones to be considered for a SHTF grabber. As it stands the AK is still primary, (especially in urban, short range apps.) but this AR will get drug along. Hopefully the current build will out shoot this one, even in the accuracy dept., but consistent 200 yard hits on a 8"-10" plate sure beats out the AK.

    So. . . . . questions, comments, concerns does anyone even care?
     

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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    its a pic and hard to tell but the silver case looks a scootch longer.
     

  3. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    Might be a good idea to READ the post before commenting. If you just wanna look at the pics I'll send you a Midway catalog. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  4. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    The projectile being longer/seated more shallow could possibly be a problem. THe case does look slightly longer as well. I wonder if trying diff buffer springs or buffers couldnt cure your problem. I havent done much research on shooting Wolf but I am aware that it does require tweaking a rifles spring/buffer combo a little.
     
  5. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    There could be a chance that I don't have the optimum buffer/spring combo in place to begin with. It is a 14.5" bbl, mid length. So I guess a lighter spring is the only answer for the gun failing to cycle completely, but we all know that Wolf's propellant isn't top shelf. I wonder if the comfort level loss, due to greater felt recoil would even be noticed by switching to a lighter spring?
     
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    wellll a longer case and the bolt not closing i think you got an answer... the chamber on the rifle you are having problems with is a little shorter than the bushmaster.

    last thing i would do is base a rifle choice on shoddy russian ammo.

    if the measurements are out of the below spec i would say the ammo is the issue not the gun. i think you found out why wolf ammo is cheap.

     
  7. Dgunsmith

    Dgunsmith New Member

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    New build....who chambered it, to what dimension and what gauges were used ?

    May reveal the first hint on the chamber.

    Which stock and buffer tube ?

    Which spring and buffer ?

    14.5 inch barrel...is it an SBR ?

    What is the gas hole size ?

    Get a set of digital calipers and measure the OAL of the load VS SAAMI Specs.

    Problems and Wolf go hand in hand...you get what you pay for !
     
  8. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    AWwww Of Course I care,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2011
  9. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Was the longer round pictured chambered in the rifle? Anyway I'm looking at the dark ring toward the tip of the bullet - is that on fresh unchambered rounds too?
     
  10. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    I got that all lined out Bill. Thanks. Several types of Ammo tested and approved and loaded into dozens of tested mags. ;)

    The reason I (or anyone else I hope) shoots Russian made ammo is because we also want to be proficient with our SHTF guns. Becoming and staying proficient with a firearm can be costly, so given the fact that Wolf is on the shelf (think that's where I got it. . . ) it should function.
     
  11. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    No, fresh out of the box.
     
  12. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    It's a complete upper from BCM. No SBR, flash hider welded.

    I know the old "you get what you pay for" cliche. I just find it curious that Wolf failed when other, cheaper Russian made crap ran through just fine.

    I've used Wolf in nearly everything and not had one problem until now. Are ARs that finicky that every little variable would actually matter? Yuck. :(
     
  13. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Unfortunately from what I have heard AR's can be more finicky that even that...
    I really question the effectiveness of the .223 platform & since I have no plans to "bug out" I plan my lil' war around the .308 round and the 12 Ga. I assume I will be about 10-30 feet away from my target (s) and when I hit my target (with the .308) I want it to go down & stay down. I really think I'll have better luck on that account with the 12 Ga... but I'll hafta wait & see.
     
  14. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Diggs, I have fired several thousand rds of 55gr Wolf from my AR's and Mini 14's. ZERO problems. Two weeks ago I ran 700rds through my M4 in one day.

    BUT, I have not used any of the 62gr. Have you tried the Wolf 55gr? And if so, does it work?
     
  15. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    I honestly don't remember if I've used 55gr Wolf through this gun, so I can't tell you. . . but this was the first time I've used the 62 grain and I've got some left, so next time I go out I'll take at least one other gun and use the same mags, etc.

    But, thanks for the practical response.

    While I'm getting into the technical side of shooting sports, first things first. . . when I pull the trigger, I want to hearBlam!!! My first (and usually only necessary) test is to shoot stuff. It usually works, so I keep shooting, until I'm done, field strip, clean and repeat for years to come.

    The folks that made the upper are reputable, so I'm not gonna go measuring in Micrometers the diameter of my gas port and even think about changing it.

    If my gun can't run 700-1000 rounds of cheap ammo through it in a day, then I'll sell it and buy one that can. :)
     
  16. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    I plan to be "bugged out" if/when bad things happen, but as of now my go to gun are AK-47s, they all "hit" a man sized with in 100 yds almost 100% of the time. The reason I would like to have an AR in the mix is due to availability of ammo, parts, accessories, etc.,

    And I gotta admit, although I hate to. . . I shoot them better than my AKs. :eek:
     
  17. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Im interested in seeing if its a problem caused by the 62gr. Ive been thinking about getting some 62gr thinking it might fly straighter than 55gr in a 1:7.

    Has anyone tried the 75gr Tula?
     
  18. Gloves

    Gloves New Member

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    Since you guys claim wolf isn't quite premium, there might be bigger variances between the ones that don't cycle correectly. (manufacture inconsistancies)
    Try to do a comparason between known good ammo and the one that was last fired
    and the one that didn't make it into the chamber all the way. I would like to see
    those differences.

    While I bet the AR doesn't mind a few tiny descrepencies, it could be the ones that
    aren't up to snuff in a batch. Ones that should have been stopped by QC at an
    American factory.

    (please note, i really don't know what i'm talking about)
     
  19. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    To be as diplomatic as possible. I will just state the modifying a weapon to shoot less than quality ammunition is a poor choice for a solution. Obviously the problem exists due to the various differences in the Throat area of the rifle in the Throat and Free Bore area. With ammo that the case might be too long or the Over All Length of the ammunition is too long. The last thing I want to do is modify a weapon to jam it in with force. IE Heavier Buffer or Spring. There is also a potential of increasing chamber pressure because the case could in fact become compressed tighter in the cannular of the bullet by being almost crushed and case expanded into the throat area. The Bushmaster Rifles normally have a little more tolerance in that area compared to some of the others. If you get a chance try a throat erosion gauge in several different brands of new ARs. You will soon see what I am saying. New the Throat Guage reading will vary. And as Diggs has mentioned if the SHTF someday I certainly would take the rifle that will shoot almost every brand of ammo I have. Not that I too am a fan of wolf and others. I am not. But understand why it is purchased. That is why the Kalashnikov AKs are good because they will shoot even crap ammunition normally.

    03
     
  20. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    My thoughts exactly. Like i said. . . I'm NOT going to make any changes to my gun!

    I haven't even put enough downrange to make an overall assessment of this guns reliability; and probably won't for another month or two. I just barely got it dialed in after my mess with a half-assed gunsmith and am VERY happy with it in that area.

    I'm soon going to have the privilege of shooting/owning different AR-15s (mechanically speaking) in the direct gas system to determine if it fits my requirements for a SHTF gun. If not I will sell two or three and invest in a high quality piston driven AR. I really like the AR-15 and it keeps growing on me, but its gotta go BANG every time. . . FIRST and foremost. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011