Question Time. ??Harmonics??

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Shihan, Dec 23, 2010.

  1. Shihan

    Shihan Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I have a question about Barrel Stabilization.
    Seems on a Mini-14 the thing to add is a stabilizer bar to stabilize harmonics:confused: or what ever.
    While on an AR the thing is a free float barrel, also with other rifles.

    Why stabilize one and allow the others to float? Anyone understand what I am asking? I got myself lost.:eek:
     
  2. doctherock

    doctherock New Member

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    Oh no I've gone crosseyed.
     

  3. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Just a thought but could it be the fact that a Mini 14 is piston driven versus the AR's DI gas system.
     
  4. Shihan

    Shihan Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    What about Piston AR's? That is the reason for the question.
     
  5. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Isn't the mini-14 of different construction than most rifles? You could get an aftermarket stock, have it milled and glass bedded. That would float the barrel to a certain degree. I believe the thing with the mini's is that it is much cheaper to add the stabilizer than to have a ton of work done. The mini is an ok shooter without either, so why do so anyway? Just to have a 5/8 inch moa brought down to 1/2"? I'm not sure how much it will cost to make a mini into a tack driver, but I am confident it is much more than what it is worth. Just sayin. Wait for Bear, he can tell you tons more about this as I am just talking out of my bdh. :eek:
     
  6. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I think it is that the piston system on teh mini makes the barrel flax more. I am unsure that is what makes the ak-47 lass accurate than the ar-15.

    I am no mini expert. I am sure they will come along shortly.
     
  7. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    That question is above my pay grade but I would suspect that a piston gas system would reduce the effectiveness of a free floated AR barrel to the extent that the piston itself adds vibration to the barrel. There is no way to isolate the piston from the barrel hence the stabilizer you would see on the Mini.

    But don't listen to me I am only speculating...hopefully some of the other guys aren't too far into the egg nog yet to give a more rational answer...:p
     
  8. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    I am thinking what Shihan is referring to is the small weight that you can move back and forth to tailor the barrel harmonics for maximum accuracy. I have seen these weights on several rifles and have always found them to be snake oil. If you have the proper load worked up for your rifle, you should not have to worry about harmonics. That however is just my opinion.
     
  9. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Screw it, who cares? Still shoots bullets! :D
     
  10. lonyaeger

    lonyaeger Active Member

    Wait, you guys get PAID for giving out advice? Where the hell was I? Out of almost 7,000 posts, I bet I gave good advice at least once.
     
  11. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Tuning fork time!!!
     
  12. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Well-Known Member

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    The reason the Mini 14 with the original weight barrel responds so well with a stiffening rod is vibration. It vibrates a LOT during firing. Two reasons for the vibration are the pencil weight barrel and the op rod vibration. That's why you'll notice the newer Mini 14s with the heavier barrel will shoot a lot better out of box compared to the original weight barrels. The AR don't have the op rod leverage and vibration.
     
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    its the crappy barrel construction and the inherent sloppy construction of the design of the ak itself. if you make a quality barrel chambered to close tolerance tighten up the action by carefully machining the bolt to fight tight in the chamber the ak would be a LOT more accurate

    of course that would greatly increase cost of manufacture by a lot.
     
  14. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Good answer! Many years ago the Germans started to test barrel harmonics. They used a piece of heavy glass that came in contact w/ the full barrel surface. it was spread w/ a very fine sand. The harmonics, that made the best barrel met at the bore, BTW the Swiss and Swedish Military adopted the practice. Since WWII, I think the only group out there that really worries about it is the USMC. I always stay away from threads w/ a chopped barrel as the longer barrel will be more forgiving even if it is not perfect.
     
  15. bgeddes

    bgeddes New Member

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    Many Benchrest guys shoot (bolt guns) with harmonic balancers on them. If they did not do something, they would not be on the gun. I know one shooter that did not have his properly tightened. The first shots were dead on, the others drifted dramatically (dramatically for a BR shooter might only be 3/4" @ 100yds) after the balancer moved.

    I assure you they are not snake oil. The people I know that use them have addressed every detail of the gun and ammo. The effectiveness of the balancer was certainly reviewed. Granted, the people I know that employ them spend many dollars to eek out every bit of accuracy prior to the addition of the harmonics device.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010