Question about Glock & "Unsupported" Barrel

Discussion in 'Glock Forum' started by trainer343, Sep 20, 2010.

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  1. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    Hi all

    I was hit with a ? I can not answer real well cause I don't feed into all the internet talk.

    While at the range some guys were wondering if I worry about glocks blowing up much? Of course I told them no I have thousands of rds thru all mine and never a hiccup. So I asked why they were concerned they answered because of the unsupported barrel.

    I said look at my Colt delta elite 10mm no more support then my glock 21 and colt is one of the oldest 1911 makers. So should I get rid of my colt? They just lol so how about it everyone what would you say about the lack of chamber support in a glock?!:D
     
  2. Glasshartt

    Glasshartt New Member

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    Trainer,

    This question had been beaten to death on this forum and others. There are many threads regarding the issue. All guns, if the conditions are right (or wrong), can blow up. The Glocks are not anymore prone to KB than anything else. Revolvers KB, XD's KB, anything can KB. As long as proper procedures are followed, and the correct ammunition is used, there should not be a problem.
     

  3. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    What the nice young lady said.
     
  4. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    I can't agree with glass more. Please everyone, let's not have another pissing contest.
     
  5. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    I didn't ask for a pissing contest and I know this an old subject and there have been many many other threads on many other forums with this questioned asked. with all that there are still more people convinced they will blow their hand off with a glock.

    I've been shooting for almost 50 years and started shooting glocks when they first come out i got one of the first 17's with over a hundred thousand on it i don't need to be convinced of anything I just wish you could talk sense to people.
    It seems like no matter what rang a guy goes to you always here it or get approach with that question.:D

    Go ahead and close the thread you like !!!:D
     
  6. Mr. Bluesky

    Mr. Bluesky New Member

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    Heh, nobody was accusing you personally of anything, but the Glock debate has been a *very* touchy subject around here recently.

    As for the original question, I've heard it said that the polygonal rifling in the Glocks has a tendency to build up blockage more than other guns if proper maintenance is not performed, and that most of the infamous Glock kabooms happened to fools who didn't know how to care for their guns. This may be false; if it is, one of the older folks will be around shortly to textually slap me upside the head.
     
  7. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    Blasphemy I put on JMB and his 1911 ? I don't follow sense i carry a 1911 almost exclusively and have over 40 1911's to pick from in my safe. Maybe you should read my post closer. it seems you misunderstood what I said.
     
  8. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    Well you won't get me to get all my guns out of the safe to prove something that doesn't need to be proven.:eek::D
    I'm to damn old to need to prove anything anymore.:D
    And I'm also to experienced with firearms to worry about rather or not I compare one gun to another thats for kids.:)

    Oh I almost forgot I have four sigs left and 15 glocks a couple kel-tecs Springfield XD's and one XDM 2 Kahrs and I won't even get into the black guns and rifles.
    Like I said I made a living training in firearm use and have been shooting for a very long time.
    Have a good day!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2010
  9. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    I like the XD's and I really like the XDm I picked up a short time ago the XDM45 that thing shoots real smooth. Of course I like anything by Springfield. Great company great CS.:)
     
  10. billt

    billt New Member

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    In any auto pistol fed from a magazine you have a balancing act to perform. How you perform it is based on how much reliability you wish to have. The larger throat, or feed ramp you supply the barrel with, the better reliability you will achieve with that pistol. This is regardless of caliber or model because all of them feed the same way.

    Consequently, the more reliability you achieve by a larger feed ramp requires less chamber support when the cartridge is fired. It reverts back to the age old saying, "You don't get something for nothing". If you fully supported the chamber it would require little to no feed ramp, which would make for a very unreliable pistol. An unreliable pistol is all but worthless. So the question becomes how much reliability do you want, yet at the same time not have the chamber so unsupported that blown cases are the result when firing hot ammo or reloads.

    Glock has achieved what is all but the perfect balance in this department. Their weapons can fire all open nosed, high performance, +P self defense ammunition very reliably, and at the same time do so with a very high safety factor. Glock specifies not to shoot reloads in their weapons. The reason for this is because if you examine a case fired from a Glock it will show some bulging near the rear of the case. If you were to resize and reload that case, and it should enter the chamber the exact same way, radially timed so the exact same spot was again located in the unsupported chamber area of the feed ramp, the case could blow out from the brass being weakened from being reworked during the reloading process, then again stressed during the firing process. Hence the warning not to shoot reloads in a Glock.

    With that said many shooters fire reloaded ammunition in their Glock pistols, most doing so without incident. I take a little different approach. I shoot only new, factory ammo in my Glocks. All 6 of them. I then collect the brass, reload it, but keep it segregated for use in my other handguns. The reloads get shot in my Beretta, Sig Sauers, and Springfield Armory 1911's without any further concern or worry.

    By doing this I still benefit from the cost savings from reloading, but still do so by not jeopardizing the threat of having a case failure in any of my Glocks. You could say it's the best of both worlds. I have never had any "kabooms", or failures in doing this for the last several years, and thousands of rounds. I will continue to do so because as they say it pays to stick with what works. Bill T.
     
  11. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    As has already been said, a Kb can happen to any gun. As far as the supposed "unsupported barrel", when people say that most are talking about the .40 S&W glocks as they have slightly less support than some other pistols. Whether it makes a difference or not is beyond my pay grade, but if I had to guess, I'd say no.

    -Fred
     
  12. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Trainer343, welcome aboard! We are known to rib each other mercilessly around here. :D After a while you will catch on.

    I'm with you. At one time I was at over 50 1911's, and a dozen Glocks. Down to a handful of each now, and most of those don't get used much (by me).

    And it sounds like your range mates spend too much time on the internet. ATF just adopted Gen4 G22's as their duty pistol. Part of their testing criteria was a 20,000 rd torture test. Glock won, even with the unsupported chamber.
     
  13. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    I have spoke the words of reducing my gun count and my son comes down on hard about that. He says look old man they stay where they are I'll take care of them. So it looks like i'll be keeping mine couldn't think of anyone better to leave them to. I only shoot a carry a select few of mine now too.:)
     
  14. billt

    billt New Member

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    The reason for not shooting lead, non jacketed bullets in a Glock is because Glocks employ Polygonal rifling in the bore. This type of rifling allows higher velocity to be achieved with less pressure when firing jacketed bullets. With lead bullets however, there isn't the conventional cut lands and grooves that give the soft lead something to "dig into". The result is that lead from the bullet can smear on to the inside of the bore causing severe leading. This can and will raise pressure in any gun, not just a Glock.

    Glock is not the only manufacturer to use this type of rifling system. Heckler & Koch has used the polygonal rifling system for years, as have other manufacturers. This type of rifling appears to be more popular with European manufacturers than with stateside gun makers.

    For the die hard handloader who is insistent on shooting lead, there are many manufacturers of drop in, replacement barrels like Lone Wolf Manufacturing who make conventional rifled barrels for Glocks. Personally, I can't understand the logic of shooting lead, non jacketed bullets in a defensive pistol. These are service pistols, not target pistols. There is plenty of low cost, jacketed ammunition being presently made out there. In fact it's getting to the point that the demand for lead, semi auto pistol ammunition has all but dried up. I can't even remember the last time I saw lead ammo in .40 S&W or .357 Sig for that matter.

    A lot of problems associated with Glock pistols can be traced back to ignorant owners who don't understand the pistols construction, and why Glock recommends such things as not shooting reloads, or lead ammunition in them. They go ahead and do it anyway, then when an issue develops, you usually read about it on a forum much like this one where some guy managed to damage the pistol, himself, or both in the process. They then start a thread on how, "Glocks are crap", or some such nonsense. These owners are not just limited to the civilian marketplace. Recently some law enforcement departments have had issues with Glock pistols, and have tried to unsuccessfully blame it on the gun, when in fact the damage was traced to incorrectly loaded ammunition. It just never ends. Shooting a Glock pistol is a lot like flying light aircraft. While it is a relatively simple and enjoyable procedure to learn, if you go about it without a simple understanding of what is going on and why, most likely something bad is going to happen. Then as always, people look to blame the machine, not the person running it. Bill T.
     
  15. billt

    billt New Member

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    No reason to. I'm not understanding this "accommodating" a Glock? A Glock is a gun you buy and shoot, same as any other. I own and shoot a half dozen of them, and I haven't done a thing to any of them. Being as all Glocks are auto pistols, and shooting lead ammo out of auto pistols is about as popular as going back to carburetors on V-8's, it's basically a non issue. Don't get me wrong, I own and shoot Sigs, and Beretta's as well, I just don't get, or buy into this business of a Glock having to be treated different than any other firearm.

    As a matter of fact if a person randomly picked 20 different brands and loads of ammunition off the shelf in any caliber, a Glock would in all likelihood digest all of them the best without incident over most other brands of handguns. That I've proven to myself many times. That is pretty hard to beat. As far as pointing the thing successfully to hit what your aiming at, that is all up to the shooter regardless of the brand of gun he or she has in their hand. Gaston Glock designed and built the thing. He can't aim them for his customers. Bill T.
     
  16. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    I agree I have some glocks with well over 100,000 150,000 rds I'm sure my glock 17 gen 1 tops that count. The only thing I have ever did is basically change springs and sights. They have eaten some lead as weel as some real crap over the years.:confused:I don't understand how it could have happened that they still work fine!!:eek::D

    OH ya Strange thing the only KB I have ever heard is when I pull the Trigger.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  17. billt

    billt New Member

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    I said if you wish to shoot lead bullets from a Glock you can replace the barrel. I also said I can't see the reason anyone would want to. Look, people modify every gun on the market with trigger jobs and such. It doesn't mean it's required maintenance. Glocks will shoot any ammo as well or better than any other weapon system out there.

    I have never heard of anyone putting $2,000.00 into a Glock. For what? Too many people start replacing parts when they can't hit anything. They would be better off spending the money on AMMO and PRACTICING with their gun, instead of blaming their lousy marksmanship on barrels, triggers, the rotation of the Earth, along with everything else. If you want a target pistol, then buy a target pistol, not a Glock. As I said Glocks are service pistols, not target grade weapons. 6 Glocks, well over 10,000 rounds of ammo, and I've yet to replace one single part. And when I do miss, it's my fault, not the guns. Bill T.
     
  18. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    I don't know what the problem is GLOCKS shoot just fine right out of the box. Like I said I have 15 all stock other than maybe a couple where I polished a few things to smooth out the trigger and added my own sights. And my Gen1 17 is easily pushing 200,000 rds all stock and like my other glock all more than accurate enough for SD and even some target shooting. Change springs now and than is all you need to do and keep'em clean and you are good to go.

    I just looked up a glock 30 I picked up 4/19/07 just counted 7,725 rds when it last went to the range on 8/26/10 I have not even changed the recoil spring in it yet everything is the same as it was the day I brought it home new. The trigger measures out at 4.8#'s right now. Nothing wrong with that.
     
  19. trainer343

    trainer343 New Member

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    I was just thinking how the hell could you put 2000 bucks in upgrades to a glock? Why everything would need to be made out of gold. Or a guy would over pay for a smith to do the work that can be done by the owner. Glocks are incredibly easy to work on and or mod. :confused:
     
  20. billt

    billt New Member

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    You have to understand this is coming from an individual who is a self admitted, and very proud HATER of the Glock pistol. And in the same breath he speaks of "Glock Fanboys". I guess that means people who actually own and shoot the handgun in question.

    Let's inject a little fact into this thread, as painful as that is to take.

    FACT #1 Glock is the number 1 law enforcement pistol in the world.

    GLOCK HATER "FACT" "They give them to the cops at cost!"

    GLOCK HATER "FACT" "They can't shoot lead bullets!"

    FACT #2 Why would "they" want to?

    GLOCK HATER "FACT" "They can't shoot reloads!"

    FACT #3 Why do 90% of people who complain about this always appear in other threads squawking on how "reloading isn't worth it", and they can PROVE IT!

    All of this is much to do about nothing, as is the proverbial "$2,000.00 Glock". Has anyone ever seen a Glock pistol sell for over $1,000.00 let alone $2,000.00??? Still more bull$h!t. And on and on it goes. It's really funny if you take the time to analyze it.

    Someone "Hates" Glocks. So on they go on this warpath to try and marginalize the pistol into something they "think" it should be. "Tupperware", "Perfection", "Kaboom", Etc. In the meantime they push pistols like the Beretta, the Sig Sauer, Springfield XD, saying how much "better" they think they are. In the end nothing mind you, supports their claims. Glock continues to march down the road to success, much like the Tea Party, putting up with all of the useless bitching and moaning of their contractors, squawking about how much "better" something designed by by Marko Vukovic and produced by I.M. Metals is, compared to the Glock that was on the map while this guy was still riding a bicycle jerking off to pictures of Cheryl Tiegs in a one piece. I don't know about you guys, but to me watching a bad episode of "Dancing With The Stars" is a more entertaining proposition. Bill T.
     
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