Question about 9mm 127 +p+

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by KellyMP, Jan 29, 2011.

  1. KellyMP

    KellyMP New Member

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    Hi everyone. I recently purchased some Winchester Ranger 9mm Luger +P+ 127GR T-Series online. I ordered this because some online forums said, "this is the best". I own a S & W MP9 and a Kahr MK9. Now I see and hear conflicting information concerning the safety of using +P+. Has anyone had used this Ammunition? Do you have any advise. Thanks.
     
  2. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    9mm+P+ ammo is made for use in pistol caliber machine guns. If you check your owners manual I am sure it will forbid you from using this ammo in your handguns. If you must use it, buy an UZI.
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Welcome to the Forum Kelly. Some of the regulars would like to see you stop by the introduction section and tell us a little about yourself. I will leave that choice up to you.

    What you have at the bare basic breakdown is a 127 grain round of 9mm ammo with enough powder behind it to create "extra" chamber pressure to cause the round to travel at higher than normal speeds.

    From Smith & Wesson:

    "Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith & Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated"

    I don't know about Kahr, but I suspect the same can be found in their manuals on their firearms.

    +P+ as I understand it, does not conform to traditional SAAMI specs, so velocities will vary, thus the manufacturers are covering their asses ahead of time.

    Now, from a purely practical standpoint, I think your weapons would handle 6 or 8 rounds of it in a self defense situation, which is all you need. However to find out where the rounds impact and how the weapon will tolerate feeding them, you will need to try shooting them. At least a box worth.

    Shooting a box "COULD" cause a problem with your weapon that you don't know about.

    It could also be 100% safe and this is just a legal precaution.

    The only weapons that I know of that come RATED to handle +P+ from the manufacturer are some H&K Pistols and some high end 1911's.

    I personally carry Winchester Ranger ammo and believe it is some of the best ammo out there, but you might have more fish than you have line trying to shoot it out of these specific pistols.

    Perhaps step back to the straight +P or consider selling off two pistols and getting one that is rated for this type of round.

    Best of luck.

    JD
     
  4. Eric0424

    Eric0424 New Member

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    Do you know the muzzle velocity and/or energy of these +P+ rounds??
     
  5. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    Add Glock to the list of +P+ a-ok guns.
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Byrd - You have paperwork on that? This has been debated a couple of times and +P is a definite from Father Gaston, but +P+ has been back and forth a couple of times.

    Anything definite??
     
  7. HKSlinger

    HKSlinger New Member

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    Just no +P+ in a .40 glock.:D
     
  8. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I guess I don't understand this fascination with +++P+++P+++ ammo. If I need more punch than 9mm, I'll just move up in caliber rather than wonder if my gun will take it.

    BTW, "best" ammo belongs in the same fairy tale as "best" gun...
     
  9. HKSlinger

    HKSlinger New Member

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    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/images/editor/attach.gif[/url This guy tried it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
  10. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    My guess is the actual fascination was about the price...
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Not everyone has a revolving door on their safe Dave. :cool:

    Just sayin'.....

    JD
     
  12. bgeddes

    bgeddes New Member

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    A +P round from a 9mm, placed fairly well on target, should produce enough of the desired effect. The need for +P+ seems far less than a reliable, proven SD +P round on target.
     
  13. SACamp

    SACamp New Member

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    Hello, Eric0424. The following Winchester Ranger 127-gr. +P+ (RA9TA)muzzle velocities (ft/sec) are based on 10 shots fired 10' from the chronograph screens.

    Browning Mk III Hi Power: 1269

    Glock 17: 1288

    Glock 26: 1246

    Springfield Armory XD: 1257

    CZ-75 Pre-B: 1285

    Taurus PT-92: 1292

    FNP9: 1248

    STI Trojan 6" Long Slide: 1296

    I have found this load to be accurate and reliable in all of the pistols through which it has been chronographed as well as a Beretta PX4.

    [​IMG]
    Here are some expanded Winchester 127-gr. JHP's. All were fired from a Browning Hi Power. The one on the left was fired into newsprint that had been soaked for 24 hours and then drained 30 minutes before shooting. The one in the middle was used to cleanly (and legally) kill a Texas whitetail deer when I was taking part in a state-sanctioned management program. It grazed the heart from approximately 10 to 12 yards (and I passed on a lot more shots than I took.) The deer dropped like a rock at the shot, kicked for a few seconds and died. The bullet on the right was fired into water. The 127-gr. RA9TA load is reported to be a very consistent performer and in my own informal, statistically-invalid, and "anecdotal" observations, it is.

    I have noticed no really obvious extreme pressure signs using this ammunition; no more than say, Speer 124-gr. GDHP +P's or similar loads. Having said that, I would not use +P+ ammunition other than from the known reputable manufacturers, since there is no SAAMI pressure-rating for it.

    Though not a round I fired each and every trip to the range, I've fired quite a bit of it over the past several years, usually in Hi Powers (using 18.5-lb recoil springs) or Glocks. I think it is probably one of the top performing 9mm loads, but there appear to be very good SAAMI-rated +P loads, one of which would be Speer 124-gr. GDHP +P. I believe NYPD issues this load and that the NY Transit Police use the standard pressure version.

    In my opinion, there are loads that perform nicely in 9mm in standard pressure, +P and +P+ and any of them will probably do the trick with decent placement. If a person has concerns over using +P or +P+ ammunition, I honestly do not think that much (if anything) is being given up with some standard pressure loads. I say "some" because I just don't have information or personal observations with all of them. In my opinion, placement is power and perhaps IF a standard pressure JHP gives up some power, it allows for more rapid follow-up shots? Just a thought, and perhaps one that is true for some folks, but not others.

    Speaking only for myself, in the 124-gr. area, I'd trust Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points or Remington's Golden Sabers. I believe that Winchester has come out with a LE 124-gr. +P load now, but I've not tried it.

    I have used Winchester's 127-gr. +P+ and Federal's 115-gr. +P+ loads with no problems, but these are the only +P+ factory rounds I've tried.


    Best and good shooting.
     
  14. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    Winchester Ranger 127 +P+ is perhaps the nastiest (in a good way) factory 9mm round out there. But it's not practical for all occasions or all guns. I have a couple boxes of it and also have three 9mms...only one of them gets to eat this stuff.

    I keep them loaded in my CZ 75b. But it's a heavy, full-framed service pistol designed to handle tens of thousands of rounds in its lifetime. It'll handle those +P+ zombie loads just fine.

    A good 124gr +P is a more than adequate defense round and generally better for carry.
     
  15. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    No sir nothing definitive. But here is what I can find.

    Glock's are rated for NATO spec ammunition. As I understand it those who propose that +p+ is ok in your Glock point to the fact that they are designed to eat NATO ammunition.

    I cant say this is a definitive answer but I wouldn't think that a major (or self respecting) manufacturer is going to make a load so hot that it would disintegrate a Glock.

    Has anyone ever tried calling Glock to find out 100%?
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    That is the thing. With +P+ there is no SAAMI spec, so it doesn't adhere to any preset "rating" system. That is why so few gun makers state it's okay to shoot in their weapon. It's gone back and forth a few times on the board, that was why I was wondering.

    Looks like I'll play Corky Duke and call the US Glock folks today and see what I can find out from one of their reps. :cool:

    JD
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    SACamp - Excellent Post! *thumbs up*

    JD
     
  18. collegekid20

    collegekid20 New Member

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    I recently shot 150 rounds of winchester ranger 127 gr +p+ that my FBI buddy brought from work on our last range trip and they shot through my new XD 9mm Service model fine. I think as long as you have a good pistol it will be fine, especially since you have the civilian rounds, idk if there is a difference, but the ones I shot said not for civilian use in red letters on the box and had a warning about higher chamber pressures. I think they will work fine for you.
     
  19. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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  20. Eric0424

    Eric0424 New Member

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    Agreed, thanks SACamp. For some reason I had trouble getting the specs.